Thread: how to develop food drive in a high prey drive dog?

Hi Bernie,

Generally, you use the reward either food or toys that the dog responds to the best. If the dog gets too hyped up and looses focus on the toy reward, it's actually a training error not the reward it's self. As an example, one of my GSD's is ball mad, and if he gets silly in the backyard hyped up jumping at the fence and barking and running around like an idiot, if I show him the ball, he will race over to me with a front sit and wait for any trained command and obey any command to be rewarded with chasing the ball which is a prey drive release. What you need to do with the toy is get him to obey a command and release him with a marker word and give him the toy as a reward for obeying. All your obedience work is done in the same fashion where he has to do something right for you to get his reward. It takes time and consistancy, but high prey drive helps this style of training dramatically and it's generally low prey drive dogs that are more food motivated and focused.

Cheers
Nev

Thankyou for this.
He is allready at the stage of offerring various trained behaviours to get his toy, in a very similar fashion as you describe. And is fast to obey commands given if there is a toy in my hand.

Ive just finished reading Sheila Booth's/ Gottfried Dildei's Schutzhund Obedience, Training in Drive, and she'd recommended food drive over prey drive for focussed heeling. Hence me trying to build it. And its gotten me all enthused about training in drive. Im keen to do obedience, tracking, agility only. Im too wary to do bite work, we have a very friendly dog, and lots of tiny visitors in family. Fight drive is not something i wish to develop in my pet. < that is probably ignorance driven belief system, but one i currently hold.
We have just started his focus heeling. Id been using food as a motivator to get him into correct position and maintain it, by rythmic feeding, and the toy after the release for reward. Quick lesson, quick play to keep his motivation up.
When i have tried to use his toy as the motivator, he gets too pushy. Forging, jumping etc. As motivation training described in her book calls for no corrections or verbal commands just luring the dog at this stage. Its hard to start over with food, especially when i know that if i give a command to 'wait' he'll stop pushing and wait to be released to 'get it'.
Im pretty sure any mistakes in my dog, are definately my training errors, not dog mistakes. Im a novice. Havent trained a dog in a couple of decades, and training back then was all check chains and yank and crank. That's how it was back then. Things/times have changed, im trying to change my methods.
What i have is an obedient pet. What i would like to do as a hobby, is training in drive obedience. To see how well we can work together as a team. Club style training bores the pants off both of us in 10 minutes. MIndless repitition for 1 hr, was not motivating either of us. Whilst he's obedient, he's very slow. Bring out the toy, and he lights up again.
With that said, would you still recommend using the toy as the motivator and the reward?

I don't train a focused heel with food anymore, I prefer the Ivan Balabanov method of gaining an eye contact focus then release with a toy reward as a two stage exercise. I like the "look" command and I will pull out a ball or the tug after the dog has given me eye contact as the reward, so the dog learns to stare at me on the "look" command. It's then only a matter of walking with the dog, command a "look", praise for the eye contact, then release with a toy reward which until then is hidden then increase the walking distance over time. The dog isn't getting ramped up looking at the toy as a lure which is what makes them jump up and be silly half way through the exercise. They can jump and be silly after release from the command on production of the reward. I do the same with their dinner, "sit" the dog sits, "look", the dog gives me eye contact as I lower his bowl to the floor, I hold him in the "look" command and the release "ok" to eat his food. I don't allow the dog to focus on his food, he must look at me to get the release and reward.

Cheers
Nev

Thankyou Neville and Judy.
I We too did Triangle of Temptation from day 1 with Bernie, so he's more than happy to give me eye contact for food, and hold the gaze.
So i like the idea of getting him to look, and "just a matter of walking the dog". and release with the toy. (also did distance learning, training in drive package).
Judy, im a novice trainer, competed in obedience trials in uk in 80's and have only owned pets since. Ive been bought a high drive pup, who is happiest when worked daily. So we contrive ways to keep my working dog thinking he still is employed, even if its just for an hour or so a day.
We are on week 2 of building food drive.
Result: less focus than with the toy. But definate vast improvement since day 1. My fingers are now bitten regularly. But if he gets a glimpse of toy, its over for the food.
A weird unexpected result was loss of weight. As i changed his feed time to the morning, after training. He wouldnt eat his meal, or leave most of it. Mine is no chow hound, and can go off his food easily. I tend to lift the bowl after 10 minutes, or we wouldnt even have this amount of enthusiasm to finish it at all. Couple that with a few days in the bush camping, where he needed to 'patrol the perimeter' every 10 mins, = skin n bone again.
So, this week, i'll try toy, and drop the food reward/lure.

Ive still got a lot of forging, but its less now, and he's getting quicker at getting into position. His rear end is too wide presumably so he can get the eye contact. So im going to put some practice in against a fence to try correct the position (of us both!).

This morning, he ignored rabbits and held heel position. I did a quick finish and released him incase it all went horribly wrong once the rabbit moved. And the minute his release came, he went straight for the rabbit. This made me feel good, as i was unsure if he was 'ignoring' the rabbit, or holding position.
Bernie

Hi Benie
I have a dog like this to.Keep sessions SHORT no more than a couple of minutes and reward with food constantly. Relase the dog Go and get the toy(Do not have it on you) short play session
Do this a few times a day as much as you can this builds the pattern of working for rewards but getting the big one at the end. you will get your dog to work more calmly in drive this way and this is what you want so the dog can think!
Well done on finishing that session when you did. best to finish something when you are not sure of the outcome. Don't stop using the food this week you will only backstep you are having a result just stick with it it will pay off
Try feeding your dog raw chicken frames that will stack the weight on and gives him something to 'do' with the food
Cheers
Karen