Thread: oh the fear

Do you know any of the dogs back ground.

Possilbly do you know the kennel where it came from.

Fear could be in the lines and then there is no way to fix it.

Who where the trainers.
All these questions will help people here help you.

regs ena

I've actually adopted a few fearful dogs... they have varied in age from 10 months to 2 years, and were fearful for a vast variety of reasons. All were on their way to the "great green dream" before finding my home. Now, none have been GSD, and none have had "protection training", but I'm thinking fear is fear, basically. Someone here correct me if I am wrong on this one!

I've had the most success in little steps, and time. Time, time, time, time, time!! Things I have done included inviting many many friends to my house to meet the dog, and taking the dog everywhere and anywhere with me. I've always tried not to cuddle or coddle, but treat the dog as normally as possible and have reasonable expectations of what they can cope with. When people come to my house and the dog has been trying to escape through the keyhole or under the door, or out the closed window (!!!!), I've asked people to just sit, chat and IGNORE the dog, and allow it to come to them. In some cases, it takes MONTHS! In the street I just show what I presume to be strong leadership (not agressive dominance, mind), and expect the dog to come along with me. We go anyplace dogs are allowed, and talk to strangers, and play any game the dog finds pleasurable as often as possible. I strictly, in the first while, avoid any situation in which the dog will not be accepted and shown positive reaction. ie: dont invite poeple over who are natuarlly fearful of dogs, or go places where agressive dogs tend to hang out! I've also always expected my dogs to spend some portion of their day (in graduated steps) outside, alone, being dogs, or outside, but being ignored by me. Building resilience in a dog, I think, is about showing the dog it's place in the family pack, and sticking to it, but also showing the dog it is safe in it's pack. Stability, consistency, firm but fair, all key concepts.

That said, if the dog is showing fear agression towards others, I would strongly advise seeking more expert advice than mine! My past dogs have all been bred to show, and each and every one has come far enough to be shown and interact with the world at an extremely acceptable level. But none have shown fear agression, so I'm no expert on that one.

How disappointing to hear of a young dog having such a shitty start in life. I dont think it is much good to name names, and do the blame game on a forum, but maybe you could share some tips from your experience to help people avoid getting tricked into choosing something inappropriate? Good Luck!

Well written post Yellowbird!

I agree with all that you have wtitten. I also agree that with fear aggression, that an experienced behaviourist be sought to assess the dog. Wogandadog doesn't sugest any fear aggression which is good.

I also feel that if there is a trainer pushing young dogs beyond their capablities, they should be named. However first we need to be sure that this is the result of unacceptable training and and training methods. So many inexperienced, or trainers with limited knowledge, are poping up and training and selling protection dogs for the fast buck. I certainly feel this is another reason why a national body is required. However, not a government regulated body, as we all know where that will end up!

I also feel that laws such as the case in Victoria, will create a lot more backyard trainers working underground, as the money for protection dogs will probably increase, especially if this law eventually goes national. Professionals will not want to break the law, as I feel they would loose their right to operate a dog training business under these new laws if convicted. Sad, sad situation, especially for our dogs.

Id tell your mate to get rid of the dog and go with him when he next goes to buy a dog. Help him out because he must not know what he is looking for in a working dog / puppy. As for naming the trainer... well is it the trainer or the dog its self. Without knowing how the dog has been raised then you really can’t judge. But if the trainer keeps popping up with poorly trained dogs, then one could say that he might be training the dogs incorrectly.
IMO

Drew

Originally Posted by Mark Singer

Well written post Yellowbird!

I agree with all that you have wtitten. I also agree that with fear aggression, that an experienced behaviourist be sought to assess the dog. Wogandadog doesn't sugest any fear aggression which is good.

I also feel that if there is a trainer pushing young dogs beyond their capablities, they should be named. However first we need to be sure that this is the result of unacceptable training and and training methods. So many inexperienced, or trainers with limited knowledge, are poping up and training and selling protection dogs for the fast buck. I certainly feel this is another reason why a national body is required. However, not a government regulated body, as we all know where that will end up!

I also feel that laws such as the case in Victoria, will create a lot more backyard trainers working underground, as the money for protection dogs will probably increase, especially if this law eventually goes national. Professionals will not want to break the law, as I feel they would loose their right to operate a dog training business under these new laws if convicted. Sad, sad situation, especially for our dogs.

I agree with both Mark and Yellowbird.

How can people be selling "trained" PP dogs at 5 months of age!!!!!...WTF!!!........my guess is they have broken the dogs confidance by pushing him too far, way to young!! This is wrong and can ruin a very good dog even with the best genetics for protection work.

Mark highlights how the laws in Victoria make many "trainers" go underground and everything is often hush hush........."backyarder whatabes" will ruin many a dog and make it a nervous wreck if it is pushed too hard to young......in most if not all dogs.....5 months is way to young to apply pressure and defense work to the poor pup who will just shut down and become a nervous wreck.

Having said that I believe any dog can be rehabilitated if you are prepared to put in the time, effort and money to get it back to being socialable....it may never acheive its orginal genetic ability but they can be bought back to a reliable level with lots of work.......My guess is this dog never had the genetic traits to make a working dog in the first place and pushing it at such a young age has turned it into a total nervous wreck. BLOODY STUPIDITY!!

If you want to get into PP/Security training firstly have your dog assessed for genetic suitability and find a reliable trainer who knows what they are really doing........this can not be over emphasized.........IF A TRAINER TELLS YOU THEY CAN TRAIN ANY DOG IN PP TYPE WORK......GO FIND ANOTHER TRAINER!!!!

Cheers

Steve

Hi Jason
You haven’t mentioned what are your intentions with the dog? What are you trying to get out of it? Lot of the fear that the dog is showing might be lack of socialisation considering how young the dog was/still is. Definitely time might give you better idea

Artur

Yes I wouldn't jump in so fast with a green dream. All dogs have a right to life. Most dogs can have their behaviour modified with patience and time. I am certain though this pup should not (and could never be) used for personal protection.

With the right family and training this pup could end up being a very loving companion dog.