Thread: Couple of Questionson Malinois

Zico has produce quite a few pups in Europe. After a quick look on the internet I found Spike Chien De Berger PH 1, PH 2 and OBJ
and Deuce From Marrax Place PH 1 and BH.

Re. Dano have heard some very good things about his progeny.

Think both dogs have something to offer, especially in the small gene pool we have in Australia.

What's wrong with hackles up and teeth flared??? I have heard this theory too many times that the dog is displaying nerves and the bottom line is, who cares!!!. Fighting drive like prey drive is dispensable, defence drive which raises hackles isn't. Fighting drive is also a learned behaviour and if the dog hasn't been pressured enough in training and then pushed on the street in fighting drive, the dog can pull the plug when the level of seriousness escalates. I would rather see some hackle knowing the dog is giving 100% than one in fighting drive playing games not knowing what can happen when the rules of the game change which on the street you can't predict or control. A dog that doesn't hackle up in the crunch is a dog that lacks civil drive in my opinion??? Some dogs will hackle faster than others depending on it's sharpness level, but gauging nerve strength on hackles and growling as the deciding factor will cause an oversight of potentially good dogs. Remember that too hard in nerve and too confident a dog is as flat as a turd in that extreme.

Cheers
Nev

Thank you for this post here Neville, this is one of the best i have personally seen in this forum in quite awhile.

Cheers
Amy

[=george kontos;16404][=adam VIPSS;16402]Ha haha

George

I don't know where you get your facts from honestly mate.
The whole RAAF breeding program is based on Zico. you have mentioned five six Aras pups, a few Dano yet Zico has close to 100 dogs in the RAAF.

I have seen Zico in flesh and not on the sch field. He was a very serious dog with very high intensity which cost him the first place at the world championships.
He got third place equal on points with the first and second dog. It was due to his serious character that he missed out.

As to the Dano dog that my friend has, she will sign up here and she might tell you. I leave it up to her.

Anyway lets not get the rulers and measuring sticks out yet.

Lets see how you handle our sport dogs, and ball chasers when you get here.

Adam VIPSS[/]

Adam
Been around for a long time MATE been to holland (stayed with Willem Gepken) [/B]
I own a ball chaser after all he is registered........
I saw a nervous dog in Zico, hackles raised teeth flared and not alot of confidence...
I say it as I see it mate. my facts are what I have seen with my own eyes.
if you thought Zico was serious maybe he was seriously scared....
i say he is great to watch doing the sch routine which he is, other then that he isnt much chop. On the same token i dont rave on about Aras, he is a nice dog but in my opinion I like Dannys Dano stuff better. Again a great dog to watch do the routine but his progeny not my cup of tea except for a couple.
I have worked the street with a Dano grandson and havent had my ass handed to me yet have you? Dont forget i did crowd control in a well known nightclub district which was known for violence, not fenced properties where you might run into one or two people.

Anyways we will see in Feb how Zico progeny compare.... lets let the dogs do the talking...........
You will keep on praising Zico and I will keep praising Dano, its like being on a roundabout.

Regards
George[/]

[FONT=Calibri]Sorry Adam, George I have changed my mind about you testing my dogs nothing good can come from it. I’m not willing risk my dogs over a pissing competition and yes George you can say I’m scared. But your opinion doesn’t mean that much to me good or bad it won’t affect the sale of my dogs.[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri].[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri]Vendo and Jamie you are welcome to come and train with us anytime. Craig and Robert if you find yourself in Qld you are welcome to Drop in.[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri]We don’t have to bad setup out here for the dogs it will be somewhere different for your dogs and we may get some ideas of each other.[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri]Cheers Brett[/FONT]

[=Brett Ward;16415][=george kontos;16404][=adam VIPSS;16402]Ha haha

George

I don't know where you get your facts from honestly mate.
The whole breeding program is based on Zico. you have mentioned five six Aras pups, a few Dano yet Zico has close to 100 dogs in the.

I have seen Zico in flesh and not on the sch field. He was a very serious dog with very high intensity which cost him the first place at the world championships.
He got third place equal on points with the first and second dog. It was due to his serious character that he missed out.

As to the Dano dog that my friend has, she will sign up here and she might tell you. I leave it up to her.

Anyway lets not get the rulers and measuring sticks out yet.

Lets see how you handle our sport dogs, and ball chasers when you get here.

Adam VIPSS[/]

Adam
Been around for a long time MATE been to holland (stayed with Willem Gepken) and my best friends family has had malinois for generations.()
I own a ball chaser after all he is registered........
I saw a nervous dog in Zico, hackles raised teeth flared and not alot of confidence...
I say it as I see it mate. my facts are what I have seen with my own eyes.
if you thought Zico was serious maybe he was seriously scared....
i say he is great to watch doing the sch routine which he is, other then that he isnt much chop. On the same token i dont rave on about Aras, he is a nice dog but in my opinion I like Dannys Dano stuff better. Again a great dog to watch do the routine but his progeny not my cup of tea except for a couple.
As
I have worked the street with a Dano grandson and havent had my ass handed to me yet have you? Dont forget i did crowd control in a well known nightclub district which was known for violence, not fenced properties where you might run into one or two people.

Anyways we will see in Feb how Zico progeny compare.... lets let the dogs do the talking...........
You will keep on praising Zico and I will keep praising Dano, its like being on a roundabout.

Regards
George[/]

[FONT=Calibri]Sorry Adam, George I have changed my mind about you testing my dogs nothing good can come from it. I’m not willing risk my dogs over a pissing competition and yes George you can say I’m scared. But your opinion doesn’t mean that much to me good or bad it won’t affect the sale of my dogs.[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri].[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri]Vendo and Jamie you are welcome to come and train with us anytime. Craig and Robert if you find yourself in Qld you are welcome to Drop in.[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri]We don’t have to bad setup out here for the dogs it will be somewhere different for your dogs and we may get some ideas of each other.[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri]Cheers Brett[/FONT][/]

Brett
I wont say you are scared its your choice who sees and tests your dogs.
As for this being a pissing contest maybe you are right....
Lets just see though, i have never talked badly of kalinka or the young pup Adam has.
Have spoken to him numerous times on the phone and havent argued.
I have not compared my dogs to yours, have not said they are better.
If I dont like Zico thats my choice. You have judged me before you have even met me.
All in all I dont really care. This was an opportunity to see the dogs Adam talks so highly of.
Good luck with the breeding.


Regards
George

Brett,
thank you for the invite, I found myself up in your neck of the woods twice a year having a look at my dogs , I would love to pop in and have a look .
I also invite you, if you ever find your self in Melbourne, to call in at our facility, or give me call and you can come out and meet us here.

regards

Rob

[=Brett Ward;16415][=george kontos;16404][=adam VIPSS;16402]Ha haha

George

I don't know where you get your facts from honestly mate.
The whole RAAF breeding program is based on Zico. you have mentioned five six Aras pups, a few Dano yet Zico has close to 100 dogs in the RAAF.

I have seen Zico in flesh and not on the sch field. He was a very serious dog with very high intensity which cost him the first place at the world championships.
He got third place equal on points with the first and second dog. It was due to his serious character that he missed out.

As to the Dano dog that my friend has, she will sign up here and she might tell you. I leave it up to her.

Anyway lets not get the rulers and measuring sticks out yet.

Lets see how you handle our sport dogs, and ball chasers when you get here.

Adam VIPSS[/]

Adam
Been around for a long time MATE been to holland (stayed with Willem Gepken) [/B]
I own a ball chaser after all he is registered........
I saw a nervous dog in Zico, hackles raised teeth flared and not alot of confidence...
I say it as I see it mate. my facts are what I have seen with my own eyes.
if you thought Zico was serious maybe he was seriously scared....
i say he is great to watch doing the sch routine which he is, other then that he isnt much chop. On the same token i dont rave on about Aras, he is a nice dog but in my opinion I like Dannys Dano stuff better. Again a great dog to watch do the routine but his progeny not my cup of tea except for a couple.
I have worked the street with a Dano grandson and havent had my ass handed to me yet have you? Dont forget i did crowd control in a well known nightclub district which was known for violence, not fenced properties where you might run into one or two people.

Anyways we will see in Feb how Zico progeny compare.... lets let the dogs do the talking...........
You will keep on praising Zico and I will keep praising Dano, its like being on a roundabout.

Regards
George[/]

[FONT=Calibri]Sorry Adam, George I have changed my mind about you testing my dogs nothing good can come from it. I’m not willing risk my dogs over a pissing competition and yes George you can say I’m scared. But your opinion doesn’t mean that much to me good or bad it won’t affect the sale of my dogs.[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri].[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri]Vendo and Jamie you are welcome to come and train with us anytime. Craig and Robert if you find yourself in Qld you are welcome to Drop in.[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri]We don’t have to bad setup out here for the dogs it will be somewhere different for your dogs and we may get some ideas of each other.[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri]Cheers Brett[/FONT][/]

Hi Brett,
we haven't met or spoken so my opinion may not be worth much to you - but for the wider community out there, if George ever asks or has the opportunity to work your dogs you have nothing to fear - he is one of the most level headed dog people I have met and it is not in his nature to do anything but what is best for the dogs.
cheers

My my my - look what you find when you are bored!! Here is this 'story' AGAIN Adam .... let me correct SOME of the many inaccuracies! I imported my FIRST Malinois FEMALE LAST year (not 12 yrs ago). My first Malinois male was imported around 6 years ago. I think you are referring to my Laekenois female (who certainly was not CHEAP to import!!) I brought her to you to assess because yes I was concerned about her character coming out of quarantine, and wanted to know if I was dealing with passive dominance by avoidance or a truly fearful dog. After putting the dog through such intense stress that she lost her bowels in your backyard, YOU told me that she was not timid and that I should not entertain her behaviour. Re the child and the car seat incident .... I do not recall this although you have harped on it infinitum!! Shame you are such a poor assessor of dog behaviour that you put a pup with such aggression in the back with a child!!! She is the Grand and Great grandmother of some awesome Laekenois around Australia today. I wonder if list members would find it interesting funny that YOU bought 3 show line Malinois that I know of (one of which you actually showed YOURSELF). You gave your first to me because you couldnt do anything with her - she went on to not only produce some of the top show lines for 2 different kennels - but also some great herding and obedience dogs. I gave you a male in return, and then you requested a second female - promising to pay for her a few weeks later. I am still waiting for that payment Adam!! 10 years on!!! The male - you got frustrated with because you could not train him, and gave him to Craig A Murray - who trained him and used him not only as a working security dog, but also as his display dog at many animal expo's. Sadly circumstances put him back into your hands, and that was when you used extortion to get $500 out of me to get him back - telling me if I did not give you the money you would put him down. Please Adam - don't deny this as I have the Patron of the Dog Squad and members of the Dog Squad who I am sure recall this incident!!!
THe gulf between show and working lines has never been as norrow as it is at the moment. THere are soooo many more show line dogs doing Obedience, Agility, Herding AND yes Schutzhund/IPO and getting BH titles. I imported Groenendael and Tervure (show lines) with IPO 1 titles. If you were really so worried about this gulf Adam - then you should embrace and encourage this change towards trialing/working show dogs, rather than bash show line breeders at every opportunity simply because it means you can claim another 20 seconds of airtime!!!! Lynda