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Reply With Quoteinteresting veiw
and since i havnt done any reaseach on imprinting yet good food for thought
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Puppy pre-schools, what do you believe?
I am one that is not in favour of this fad that your puppy should attend a puppy pre-school to ensure we develop/imprint correct social skills in our dogs.
I personally feel we are actually doing the opposite by attending puppy pre-schools with young pups, and in many instances imprinting un-natural and (in some cases) anti-social behaviour in young puppies.
The first 16 to 18 weeks of a puppy's life are the most important. Young pups in their natural environment do not socialise with other pups or dogs outside their immediate pack. During this important imprinting period, by attending a puppy pre-school,are we not going against a pups natural instincts and therefore in a way confusing our puppy, and therefore creating problems further down the track?
Are we not imprinting into young pups that ALL dogs belong to the pack? Is this why so many dogs are so eager to get to other dogs whilst in public? As the dog has been conditioned from a young age that ALL dogs are members of its pack?
Why are their so many public dog fights?... Many owners take their dogs to puppy pre-schools because they are told its what they should do. The puppy is imprinted that ALL dogs are its pack members. Do we not then create a situation of possible anti-social behaviour with other dogs if the owners are not establishing the correct relationship with their dog within their own pack?
I firmly believe that for the first 16 to 18 weeks puppies should be imprinted that there are only certain members within its pack. Puppy pre-schools go against this philosophy and therefore in my opinion create more problems as the dog matures.
After this imprinting period, the pups can then be socialised in controlled environments around other dogs, so as to ensure correct social skills are developed.
I'd like to hear others opinions... I'll probably have more to write on this later.
interesting veiw
and since i havnt done any reaseach on imprinting yet good food for thought
Regards
Nathan
"Cave Canem"
Hi Mark
Interesting viewpoint.
I am also not in favour of puppy preschools, but for a slightly different reason. Well, sort of same reason but different slant.
Only one of my dogs has gone to a puppy preschool (and to dog parks when a pup) and she is the only one who is aggressive towards other dogs. I am now more careful in my socialisation regime.
I think it is very important for dogs to meet other dogs and learn how to act around them, in the period up to 16 weeks, but I think the way some puppy preschools do this by allowing free for all roughhouseing causes problems.
I want my dog to be able to meet another dog calmly and appropriately, sniff, say hi, and move on. Not initiate play with every dog it sees and not become aggressive towards every dog it sees. So my plan is to attend shows and competitions so they can see other dogs, and meet calm, friendly dogs that I know (eg friend's dogs) and that I know will help teach my dog appropriate meet and greet signals and good manners.
"Take this trouble for me: Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim"
Max von Stephanitz
I think there are a few issues that with puppies that a lot of people get wrong right from the start. A lot of problem behaviour can be traced back to timing of separation from the litter. Generally depending on the pup and what you want to do with the pup you pick a day between 7 and 9 weeks. And there are several reasons for this but may be that is a topic that can be discussed later.Originally Posted by Mark Singer
As far as puppy pre school I think they are a great idea for socialisation at the right age as long as they are "RUN PROPERLY". The only real harm I think that can be developed from them is usually attributed to the attitude of most trainers that run them.
Dog parks - great for the owners not the dogs. I agree - too confusing. Only when empty and if some one approaches I ask them to wait. If they do not want to wait then I TELL THEM TO WAIT.
But with me after about 12 to 14 maybe 15 weeks no more I adjust the time my dogs spend with other dogs, by themselves and with my family and I to gain the balance I want at that time.
Vendo.
------ TALK IS CHEAP.... SHOW US YOUR DOG
www.workingdutchshepherds.com.au
www.qldsecuritysolutions.com.au
Very interesting topic Mark,
I have mentioned in another thread in here how much effort I put into socalizing my pups I breed up until I sell them. I always get this question from a number of new owners....if not most.....when should I take him to puppy/training school.
I have strong personal views on this, I try to get the new owner to follow. From when they leave my place at about 8 weeks I believe I have done the best I can to socialize them and in my own personal pups I continue this process until they are 6-8 months of age. They only have undertaken very basic, formal training and manners and life too them seems a lot of fun and heaps of exploring, new experiences and learning from dogs I can trust.
I suggest to all clients they do the same, take the dog everywhere and anywhere just forget formal or puppy school until at least 6 months old. With my own dogs that are selected for PP/security type work, so I increase the drive and play heaps and as mentioned take them everywhere but formal training and with other off leash unknown dogs will not happen until a minimum of 6 months of age.
Everyone to their own and every one has a different reasons reason/training for a dog but this has proven me well so far and it is what I recommend to clients who usually appreciate the advice........let a pup be a pup......let him experience all things out their in the world....... but make sure he has no bad experiences that may effect him later on or for the rest of his life.
Once we begin formal training they usually have very high respect and are extremely confident dogs that just want to please
Just my personal ideas
Steve
I have never done pp.I feel it's better to have them out as young as possible in a safe environment, like walking and carrying when they are 8 wks+ I like them lead trained as early as possible also. I say the same thing as everybody else as put here, go EVERYWHERE even let them poke their heads into Retail stores if possible.I don't however let young babies go near strange dogs at all.Just our own.So they never run with unknown dogs like at these off lead parks,never been to one never want to.
One thing that always crops up in my mind is the possible health risk at a vet practice given that is where sick animals go.Now I understand they Bleach but that's just me.
Amy
quote
I am one that is not in favour of this fad that your puppy should attend a puppy pre-school to ensure we develop/imprint correct social skills in our dogs.
I personally feel we are actually doing the opposite by attending puppy pre-schools with young pups, and in many instances imprinting un-natural and (in some cases) anti-social behaviour in young puppies.
Agree.
I think Puppy pre school is aload of bollocks usually run by vet clinics so they can rip more money off you after they have taken your hard earned coin for the over inflated prices they have just charged you for vaccinating your new baby.I have enever taken a pup there and wont be any time soon.I am with mark most behaviours are formed in a dog between 7 and 12 weeks.I want the dog to listen and pay attention to me not other dogs.
I take mine out at a yong age to shopping centre carparks,beach and other places where there is noise,people and different surfaces to walk on so they are exposed to different things and noise noise noise.Puppy preschool doesnt teach anything you cant at home in 30 minutes.
I did puppy class here and hate what it created. The lady that takes it lets them run a muck and I can never be as much fun now. Maybe if done properly it might work, I don't know. My dog loves other dogs but will fight if they are not who she wants.
I was told it would make it better to go to the vet with your dog, and it is.
Oh yeah the vets don't have the floors mopped until the day ends, so yes it is a worry..
After this thread and hearing what people say I might reconsider. I am worried my dog will bite the vet though, could always use a mussle.
I have seen many dogs and spoken to their owner about puppy class and how it has been with their dog and a lot have a dog thing, either kill or play and all the dogs I raised in the past without PC where great dogs without all the crap.
You are so right Mark, and it is a great topic....
Oh I have done 2 puppy classes and both dogs where dog crazy in a play way and it made it so much harder to train them. I want my dog to look at me, not other dogs.....
On the mopping thing . . .
I have worked at several vets, some of which did puppy preschool. We mopped the floors several times a day, morning, lunch time, before puppy class and end of day.
"Take this trouble for me: Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim"
Max von Stephanitz
Hi Kavik,
I'm interested to know if you mopped the car park or the pathways to the entry of the surgery?
Cheers
Chris
Amy Pattison (04-02-2012)
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