Thread: Puppy Pre-Schools

Not hard to tell that the cleaning hadn't been done with a puddle of pee on the floor when we turned up one night and after that, the amount of fur is easy to tell it wasn't done..
I have worked at vets that have a mop run through hourly.

" Originally Posted by Mark Singer
Puppy pre-schools, what do you believe?

I personally feel we are actually doing the opposite by attending puppy pre-schools with young pups, and in many instances imprinting un-natural and (in some cases) anti-social behaviour in young puppies.

The first 16 to 18 weeks of a puppy's life are the most important. Young pups in their natural environment do not socialise with other pups or dogs outside their immediate pack. During this important imprinting period, by attending a puppy pre-school,are we not going against a pups natural instincts and therefore in a way confusing our puppy, and therefore creating problems further down the track?"

Not sure I am in sync with you on this particular opinion Mark, although I understand your observation.

Let me first qualify that yes, I am a professional trainer and therefore some of you may understandably feel that I have a bias towards working with puppies from a commercial point of view. Fair call, although I am not coming at this post from that standpoint.

Please consider the following points:

In the case of a natural setting, there would be an advantage to the individual, the pack and the species by the pup showing suspicion of other dogs from outside the family unit. What we as working dog enthusiasts are asking a working puppy to do is to be able to function in a busy and highly populated society in order for him to become a well rounded, highly sociable and well habituated animal.

A working dog, for sport or service, that does not learn good communication skills, or is dog aggressive, is a liability to both itself and its handler, not to mention the potential for harm to other dogs.

Who wants a crook pointing a shotgun at you as you command your dog to protect you, whilst it is too busy going spare at the Jack Russell Terrier walking past the other side of the road? Sound stupid? Well there are a hell of a lot of dogs out there in both sport and private service that would behave exactly that way, or at the very least be significantly distracted.

Personally, I would prefer that my dog remain neutral towards other dogs.

Puppy schools as most people run them are not necessarily conducive to good dog training or even good socialisation/habituation. This is because most trainers that run them, although well meaning, do not understand that they are teaching counterproductive concepts to the pups.

As Lindsay said at the NDTF conference this year, only the most experienced trainers should work with puppies.

Mindful exposures to dogs of all ages that are well handled and are good communicators with other dogs offer huge advantage to pups(and the adults they become). Evenly matched puppies in size,age, and temperament should be allowed to play supervised, although it is a great idea to introduce them on leash first (if you intend them to interact off leash together at all).

Puppy pre-school should be much more about desensitising dogs to the presence of other dogs, and encouraging calmer behaviour in the face of this stimulation for pups. Moreover, I would suggest that the single most important facet of these classes/gatherings is handler education.

In my experience, lack of handler education is the biggest problem puppies face. Handlers that do not understand how to communicate clearly with their pup, shape basic behaviours, avoid inappropriate suppression, and offer their pups highly appetitive social experiences aiming towards a suitable and thoughtful end training goal are the cause of the majority of the issues people deal with in their adult dogs.

A vet surgery as a venue? Well they may well mop the floor, but I bet they do not scrub clean the concrete in the carpark that sick dogs walk over all day! There is no clear arguement that these venues are in the best interest of the dog or offer any foreseeable benefit to pups. They are, however, popular with trainers for commercial reasons, and the vets involved often benefit from these classes taking place at their venues.

Also, if the right work is done imprinting your dog with recalls and attention giving behaviours, then I would suggest that the one day of greater socialisation per week that these classes generally offeer will pale in comparisson to the robust behaviours created through dilligent and mindful work on the other 6 days of the week. To go further and simply work with your dog in the presence of other dogs would in fact offer you a massive long term benefit, and your dog as well.

I acknowledge that although this is a lengthy post, it is just one man's opinion, and that it is impossible to offer a 'complete explanation' in a post like this, but I sure hope that I have at least given somebody food for thought and that I can encourage more discussion on this most important of topics.

Have a killer week guys!

BG

Good article Brad

I agree with a lot of what you say. Remember I am talking about your average run of the mill preschools, run by inexperienced people, and what is in my opnion incorrect socialistation at such a young age. Most Vets now run preschools with young nurses trained in the Delta methods (which I do not agree with for young pups). Most of these puppy preschools are just a free for all. I have seen way to much antisocial behaviour let loose, and anxiety created in these places.

They need to be more controlled and structured. This idea of taking your pup to a preschool and just allowing a free for all, is imprinting and hardwiring in many cases anxious dogs. How many young pups do you see by the 3rd week going to a class, being overly anxious to get to the other pups, barking, screaming, becoming overly assertive, etc and then just let loose. There seems to be in many of these classes no bounderies and limits set, no conditioning calm well balanced behaviour then rewarding with socialising.

If they are run correctly, then I do not have an issue with them. but in my opinion many of these preschools are imprinting and hardwiring incorrect behaviour, which is then continued as the dog matures, as the owners have been misinformed on correct imprinting and conditioning. Not understanding the basic theory, that whenever we give a dog/pup a positive, we are reinforcing a state of mind.

In a normal dog pack adult dogs set rules and bounderies for the pups, in many of these prechools these instructors are not teaching the owners how to do this.

Taking a pup "once" a week to go and socialise in a free-for-all is un-natural. Not like a pup that is with a dog pack fulltime, and the pack rules are maintained. Dogs do not become anxious within a pack, it is when we continually seperate pups for a few days and then bring them back together again, we need to be so careful what behaviours and pyschological conditioning we are imprinting.

I have seen more overly anxious behaviour, and dogs that are overly assertive towards other dogs, or fearful insecure dogs, and imprinted with antisocial behaviour that have attended preschools and those that didn't.

Too many see these preschools like a childs kindergarten, where its a place for the pups to go once a week and have "fun", and not about creating well balanced calm pups, and hardwiring correct neutral behaviour towards other dogs.

I've always thought that these "puppy classes/schools" are a great place for your pup the learn bad habits. I see no advantage for anybody who is serious about socialising their pup and a lot in these places that will create problems in the future.

For run of the mill puppy schools ... no. I tell clients to stay right away from anyone that does not have years of real experience with dogs. I recommend only one person and that woman is a friend of mine, trainer and registered breeder who produces bombproof dogs and her latest litter is incredible. You could set off a firecracker under their tails and they would just shrug it off.

It seems to be a novelty for some people. OMG I LOVE PUPPIES I BETTER RUN A PUPPY PRESCHOOL LOL <3 ... those people, usually younger girls/women I want to smack upside the head. The ones that tell people to only use food rewards, to never take the pup anywhere until the last vaccination at about 16 weeks, to eat only dry food and bones are dangerous, blah blah blah. Lets not forget pearls of wisdom like throw a can full of rocks at your puppy if its doing something wrong Or the ones that let puppy preschool be a free for all with simply a pile of growling, snarling pups. As for Delta they have cornered the market with their catch phrases of 'positive' 'gentle' 'friendly' etc etc. It makes people think that anything else is simply torture. If you didnt know any better wouldnt you prefer 'positive' training, makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. OK for pups I do a lot of positive reinforcement, separation from the other dogs and bonding. But hell there is still consequences to actions, parameters, rules etc that have to be learned. This last step seems to be totally missing in most puppy preschools.
I have only attended one puppy preschool, and that was at the insistance of the rescuer I got my rottie from. She is a Delta fanatic. Well, I went and saw the dogs simply being lured, if they didnt want to do something you waited until they were ready to decide to maybe comply (pffft not in my household). Then we had PLAYTIME! My rottie pup decided to drop tackle a whippet pup and start laying into it, I grabbed him by the scruff and loundly growled "Ahhhh OFF" then put him on lead. Well you think I was murdering the dog with the talking too I got in front of all the other people. Whatever ... then I gave my pup a pigs ear and her adult rott a pigs ear. My pup spit out his, marched over to the adult rott and bullied him out of the ear. I grabbed it off him, put him on lead and took both ears away. Again 'oh dont do that he's just a baby'. Yup a baby (3 1/2 months) with an attitude problem. Mind you when she had him she saw no problem with him showing any of this behavior

The problem is these days sometimes preschool is the ONLY quality socialisation for the dog during its critical period. Vets still tell people to lock away their pups until a week after the last vaccine, but visit their puppy preschool (inconsistancy there anyone?) The average joe bloggs puts blind faith in the veterinary profession and unfortunately listen to them despite the fact that most vets have no clue about dog behavior. Most vets dont even know what critical period is or the fact you have to work ten times as hard in that time to ensure a well rounded dog hence do not see the importance of an educated and experienced individual taking the class. I would rather a client with a working pup go back and visit their breeder or go to a schutzhund club early on as well as be exposed to everyday life all the time rather then a puppy preschool which really, one hour a week will contribute very little. Either that or see more education pre puppy purchase to what needs to be done considering not everyone buys from a decent registered breeder who has half a clue about how a pup should be socialised.