Thread: To operate or not

The pup doesn't sound very promising for a Schutzhund candidate with an elbow weakness.........I would take it up with the breeder first to check for a genetic issue, it's a hard call as to what would be best for the pup?

Anne Marie , naturally i have been in contact with the breeder, and of course he is not any good for sch or anythign else much as he is extremely lame, what i want to know is would you operate and pet home him??

Originally Posted by wesenhund

Anne Marie , naturally i have been in contact with the breeder, and of course he is not any good for sch or anythign else much as he is extremely lame, what i want to know is would you operate and pet home him??

I assumed from your post that you contemplated Sch after operating? If the vet believed a prognosis from an operation was good and the pup would be pain free, I would consider that and pet home him to live his life, yes.

no Anne Marie i have no intention of operating and then trying to do sch, even if the op was successful,as we all know it is a sport for healthy 'unbroken' dogs, i am a breeder and i look at whats best for the dog, i have yet to see a dog that has had the operation been 'pain free' this dog already has huge amount of arthritis in one elbow and the beginnings in the 'better' elbow, he is lame and when confined away from the other dogs and does nothing the lameness is about the same, i wanted to see how much doing a small amount of bitework effects the dog and the lameness , the dog who has very high drive was very keen the first 3 bite sessions and didnt seem overly lame more then normal, but the fourth session (a week apart) the dog was not overly keen wouldnt 'pump' back and wouldnt really engage very much, unlike the first 3 times, he was extremely lame and is finished, the problem i have is as a breeder i wouldnt not want any dog of mine that i bred be in pain, i wouldnt encourage any owner to have the operation due to not seeing any success with the elbow ops, if there was no or very little arthritis i woulld not hesitate but is it worth spending a couple thousand dollars on 2 operations to gve away a dog who may very well still be lame afterwards and how many people will take a dog on who is already got a problem??
Myself personally i have been breeding long enough to feel whats right and wrong, too many breeders (mostly show line breeds LOl of which i am aswell) that make excuses and breed with problems (not that this is the case with the dog in question) and i see in my line of work people keeping dogs alive because they cant do the right thing by the dog, i really like this dog and it pains me greatly to see him put on this earth to do the sport of sch (of which he was very keen and showing huge potential) to now wanting to do it and then hurting himself again and again, if it was one of my own breeding he would already have been PTS but this is not possibly due to him not being my breeding, it is a very sticky situation for me wanting to do what i beleive is right by the dog and also doing what the breeder wants, also of course makes it very hard for both myself and the breeder as we live in different countries so she cant just get the dog back and give me my money back, its hardly worth spending another $1500 on airfares to send him home, being really blunt now, i am totally torn by doing whats right for the dog and doing whats right to get my money back, (of which there has never been a question about) if it hadnt been a costly experience buying one from oz shipping it here ect then quiet frankly i would do what i know is right but the huge expense of getting the dog there is alot of other influences i have to take into account, sounds really bad as i right this thinking of the money ect at a time liek this but if it was only a thousand dollars woudlnt matter, this dog was to be my next competition dog and also part of my new breeding program due to the lack of good working males in nz, that dream ended in novemeber when he was first x-rayed.
oh well enough of my rambling got it off my chest

If a dog has that many issues under 12 months I would be putting it down.
With arthritis at 5 months of age the poor bugger is going to have no quality of life at all, I certainly would not operate, have been there done that, it is only going to get worse not better.
Surely you have some sort of guarantees from the breeder or did you breed it yourself?

HI Robert , firstly i didnt breed him and second the breeder has guaranteed him and has offered me a replacement or refund no problems there, the issue i have is what to do with the dog, in my own situation as a breeder i guarantee the pet owner keeps the dog or puts the dog down their choice, and then i replace or refund (only had to do this once ever ) it is harder as the breeder is in a different country, she would take him back but the cost is not worth spending given the fact of how much pain the dog is in, she doesnt want him PTS i do, and rest assured i DONT make this decision lightly, it is painfully to watch a otherwise happy dog limping around my back yard, or like yesterday not wanting to come near us incase it hurts, i agree with you totall robert at 5 months if you have arthritis even with the op to remove the fragments from the UAP not going to help the arthritis which is of course causing most of the pain, i thank you all for your support via PM and here on this forum, i know whats right but things are a little more difficult in this case

OMG, it's no wonder some breeders get a bad name, they deserve it?

What annoys me in these situations, they rattle on about how awesome their dogs are sucking people in to buy them, one ends up crap with a major health fault and then they try and pull a stunt on the poor bugger who spent the money and supported them? A GSD with wonky elbows is as bad as one with HD, a high level breed fault that is supposed to be screened for prior to breeding. There should absolutely be no arguments in this case if the breeder has any integrity, a good breeder would IMHO suck it up quickly, provide a refund and take the dogs who produced this pup out of their breeding program, not argue about what needs to be done with the poor pup to try and avoid their reponsibilities.

Agreed Neville , i must point out while i totally absolutely agree with your statements, there is no question about the refund, as soon as the breeder was told about the problem she offered the money back/replacement straight away, absolutely no question in that, the problem lies with the actual dog and what happens to him now, i have seen enough dogs with elbow dysplasia and as an ethical breeder who actually cares about puppies i breed i would never want the dog in pain, some people/breeders see it different and i guess thats up to the individual, if i had bred the dog myself after two lots of x-rays and blind freddy could see the issues i would have put him down, but since this decision is not mine to make due to the refund ect he may not be, it will be very very hard to find someone to take on the dog even though he is an awesome dog but limps and is already on pain relief, not very happy in this camp at the moment

Has the Breeder asked for a Vet report on the dogs condition?