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Thread: Annual vaccinations - Right or wrong?

                  
   
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    Annual vaccinations - Right or wrong?

    Even though I have no scientific training, I for one believe we are over vaccinating our dogs. I feel there is now way too much evidence suporting the fact that annual vaccintaions can indeed be dangerous to our dogs. And that the vaccinations now administered by veterinary surgeons, will infact cover your dog for many years, if not for the life of your dog.

    I believe, as for the human inmmune system, we greatly underestimate how well our dogs immune system works, and once these new vaccintaions are administered to our dog, the dogs natural immune system creates antibodies that can indeed last for the life of our dogs. I also believe, that we DON'T fully understand what affect we have on our dogs immune system and health by overly vaccinating.

    I'd like to hear others opinions.

    Does anyone here think that many Vets are disregarding the evidence, due to the fact that if dog owners stopped coming in for their dogs yearly vaccination, they fear a greatly reduced cliental, and therefore income?

    Below is one of many articles you can find on this rather controversial subject.

    Subject: RE: Vets in UK Speak against annual shots -


    the following letter appeared in Veterinary Times, UK - late jan 2004



    Dear Editor

    We, the undersigned, would like to bring to your attention our concerns in the light of recent new evidence regarding vaccination protocol.

    The American Veterinary Medical Association Committee report this year states that 'the one year revaccination recommendation frequently found on many vaccination labels is based on historical precedent, not scientific data'.

    In JAVMA in 1995, Smith notes that 'there is evidence that some vaccines provide immunity beyond one year. In fact, according to research there is no proof that many of the yearly vaccinations are necessary and that protection in many instances may be life long'; also, 'Vaccination is a potent medical procedure with both benefits and risks for the patient'; further that, 'Revaccination of patients with sufficient immunity does not add measurably to their disease resistance, and may increase their risk of adverse post-vaccination events.'

    Finally, he states that: 'Adverse events may be associated with the antigen, adjuvant, carrier, preservative or combination thereof. Possible adverse events include failure to immunise, anaphylaxis, immunosuppression, autoimmune disorders, transient infections and/or long-term infected carrier states.'

    The report of the American Animal Hospital Association Canine Vaccine Taskforce in JAAHA (39 March/April 2003) is also interesting reading: 'Current knowledgte supports the statement that no vaccine is always safe, no vaccine is always protective and no vaccine is always indicated'; 'Misunderstanding, misinformation and the conservative nature of our profession have largely slowed adoption of protocols advocating decreased frequency of vaccination'; 'Immunological memory provides durations of immunity for core infectious diseases that far exceed the traditional recommendations for annual vaccination. This is supported by a growing body of veterinary information as well as well-developed epidemiological vigilance in human medicine that indicates immunity induced by vaccination is extremely long lasting and, in .most cases, lifelong.'

    Further, the evidence shows that the duration of immunity for rabies vaccine, canine distemper vaccine, canine parvovirus vaccine, feline panleukopaenia vaccine, feline rhinotracheitis and feline calicivurus have all been demonstrated to be a minimum of seven years, by serology for rabies and challenge studies for all others.

    The veterinary surgeons below fully accept that no single achievement has had greater impact on the lives and well-being of our patients, our clients and our ability to prevent infectious diseases than the developments in annual vaccines. We, however, fully support the recommendations and guidelines of the American Animal Hospitals Association Taskforce, to reduce vaccine protocols for dogs and cats such that booster vaccinations are only given every three years, and only for core vaccines unless otherwise scientifically justified.

    We further suggest that the evidence currently available will soon lead to the following facts being accepted:

    * The immune systems of dogs and cats mature fully at six months and any modified live virus (MLV) vaccine given after that age produces immunity that is good for the life of that pet.

    * If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralise the antigens from the subsequent so there is little or no effect; the pet is not 'boosted', nor are more memory cells induced.

    * Not only are annual boosters for canine parvovirus and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated haemolytic anaemia.

    * There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual administration of MLV vaccines.

    * Puppies and kittens receive antibodies through their mothers' milk. This natural protection can last eight to 14 weeks.

    * Puppies and kittens should NOT be vaccinated at less than eight weeks. Maternal immunity will neutralise the vaccine and little protection will be produced.

    * Vaccination at six weeks will, however, DELAY the timing of the first effective vaccine.

    * Vaccines given two weeks apart SUPPRESS rather than stimulate the immune system.

    This would give possible new guidelines as follows:

    1. A series of vaccinations is given starting at eight weeks of age (or preferably later) and given three to four weeks apart, up to 16 weeks of age.

    2. One further booster is given sometime after six months of age and will then provide life-long immunity.

    In light of data now available showing the needless use and potential harm of annual vaccination, we call on our profession to cease the policy of annual vaccination.

    Can we wonder that clients are losing faith in vaccination and researching the issue themselves? We think they are right to do so. Politics, tradition or the economic well-being of veterinary surgeons and pharmaceutical companies should not be a factor in making medical decisions.

    It is accepted that the annual examination of a pet is advisable. We undervalue ourselves, however, if we hang this essential service on the back of vaccination and will ultimately suffer the consequences. Do we need to wait until we see actions against vets, such as those launched in the state of Texas by Dr Robert Rogers? He asserts that the present practice of marketing vaccinations for companion animals constitutes fraud by misrepresentation, fraud by silence and theft by deception.

    The oath we take as newly-qualified veterinary surgeons is 'to help, or at least do no harm'. We wish to maintain our position within society, and be deserving of the trust placed in us as a profession. It is therefore our contention that those who continue to give annual vaccinations in the light of new evidence may well be acting contrary to the wefare of the animals committed to their care.

    Yours faithfully

    Richard Allport, BVetMed, MRCVS
    Sue Armstrong, MA BVetMed, MRCVS
    Mark Carpenter, BVetMed, MRCVS
    Sarah Fox-Chapman, MS, DVM, MRCVS
    Nichola Cornish, BVetMed, MRCVS
    Tim Couzens, BVetMed, MRCVS
    Chris Day, MA, VetMB, MRCVS
    Claire Davies, BVSc, MRCVS
    Mark Elliott, BVSc, MRCVS
    Peter Gregory, BVSc, MRCVS
    Lise Hansen, DVM, MRCVS
    John Hoare, BVSc, MRCVS
    Graham Hines, BVSc, MRCVS
    Megan Kearney, BVSc, MRCVS
    Michelle L'oste Brown, BVetMed, MRCVS
    Suzi McIntyre, BVSc, MRCVS
    Siobhan Menzies, BVM&S, MRCVS
    Nazrene Moosa, BVSc, MRCVS
    Mike Nolan, BVSc, MRCVS
    Ilse Pedler, MA, VetMB, BSc, MRCVS
    John Saxton, BVetMed, MRCVS
    Cheryl Sears, MVB, MRCVS
    Jane Seymour, BVSc, MRCVS
    Christine Shields, BVSc, MRCVS
    Suzannah Stacey, BVSc, MRCVS
    Phillip Stimpson, MA, VetMB, MRCVS
    Nick Thompson, BSc, BVM&S, MRCVS
    Lyn Thompson, BVSc, MRCVS
    Wendy Vere, VetMB, MA, MRCVS
    Anuska Viljoen, BVSc, MRCVS, and
    Wendy Vink, BVSc, MRCVS

  2. #2
    Summit K9
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    Re: Annual vaccinations - Right or wrong?

    Yes I’d agree that the veterinary fraternity are more concerned with the income they derive from annual “booster” jabs than the welfare of the dog. I have read about this before and a term used is ‘vaccinosis” which refers to the side effects of giving annual shots throughout the dog’s life. There is also a good article on this on Ed Frawley’s site Leerburg. I can see a lot of sense in this; apparently all 27 veterinary schools in the States are in the process of changing their protocols for vaccinating dogs, based on current research.

    The biggest drawback for the average dog owner who wants to leave their dog/s in boarding kennels when they go away is they can’t....any annual vaccinations (booster) means their dog wouldn’t be accepted for boarding.

    Peter

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    Guest Tony McCallum's Avatar
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    Re: Annual vaccinations - Right or wrong?

    Long before any scientist agreed, l never joined the annual vaccination brigade. l reckon l dont get shots every year so why should they.
    And pumping shot after shot of multiple vaccines into a little pup seemed a bit off to me to. l live out in the back woods and am of Scot heritage so maybe l am just tight, but my dogs are always healthy and l give the basic regime of shots , then a booster at a year and that is it, if travelling or being exposed in close quaters to a lot of strange dogs, l may give a second booster down the track. l think it is the vets bread and butter, and his access to the client to peddle some other services, they will be reluctant to let it go. lt is a farce what they charge anyway, when l was in the states you could pick up the vaccines and do it yourself for a few bucks a pop. The vet will tell you they need to give a health check first, but l have seen more pups than half the vets they get now, and very often they just ask you "has the puppy been well" and give the needle as you answer, some in depth exam that is !!
    Tony

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    Senior Member Nathan Cram's Avatar
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    Re: Annual vaccinations - Right or wrong?

    iam not for or against shots
    if i rember i get my dogs done jnrs had all his since i have had him 2 lots but thats because of the acceptance to some place and company policy
    but missy my bitsa had her 1st one last year and she is 7or 8 and thats because jnr got his
    she came up all right
    the only prob she has is fleas and thats a different issue
    Regards

    Nathan
    "Cave Canem"

  5. #5
    Jeff J
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    Re: Annual vaccinations - Right or wrong?

    once the puppy shots are done I dont bother with going back for the yearly booster.

  6. #6
    mustangz
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    Re: Annual vaccinations - Right or wrong?

    i love this kind of topic as i think there are so many areas that are not covered or discussed.

    i will say this much from my own experience and knowledge. I do believe that for the first 2 years Especially gsd's should be vaccinated. Especially puppies. due to Parvo being such a high and deadly risk for the breed and the gsd's dont have the immunity to fight parvo like Rotties or most other breeds (apart from dobes i think they are in same category as gsds?) Also having spent $2500 to buy a gsd puppy to have it come home and to have it fighting for it's life 3 days later with Parvo virus. After spending over $5000 to keep her alive.. at 15 months i lost her anyway. money down the drain and no dog to be with.

    I have in my time of owning gsd's lost 2 to Parvo and one which i managed to get him into the vets on time. For this reason alone i do believe up to the age of 2 gsd's should have their vacc and i'm big on C7's only for that period after that no i dont think so. i dont bother.. i do however after about 4 to 5 years give them another one just to kick it into their systems BUT if they are ok and healthy i simply dont bother.

    there is a book out called the vaccination Roulette i think now from memory and some of the horror stories in that about vacc boosters is enough to turn anyone off giving vaccinations.

    If your dogs are healthy and ok why bother.
    Yes i love my vet for this reason.. he always says to me.. is the dog ok? dont bother with the booster.. i have 2 gsd's who are 3 years old and they both had their needles when they were 2 my 12 month old girl only had her puppy shots and my 6 year old pom only had her first booster.. i personally wouldn't bother.. believe me if the k9 council wasnt big on puppy vaccinations.. i would re consider that too.

    working on the other hand.. well that's a seperate issue i do believe in that and am big on it

  7. #7
    Member Jamie Davies's Avatar
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    Re: Annual vaccinations - Right or wrong?

    I am all for annual booster shots. I have seen dogs that were at one stage vaccinated, die from diseases such as Parvo and Distemper in a large kennel environment. For a few bucks and 20 minutes of our time, these shots may just help prevent this.

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    Re: Annual vaccinations - Right or wrong?

    100% against.

    I do the 12 week vac then nothing, though, I am considering doing the 16 week but I am undecided.

    I don't titre test either, as regardless of what the test shows there is nothing we can do about it.

    If the dog isn't immune, then he is a non-responder.
    If the dogs immunity is low, then who cares. Low immunity is fine.
    If the dogs immunity is high, then fantastic.

    So really, there is nothing we can do.

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    Senior Member Lia Goldie's Avatar
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    Re: Annual vaccinations - Right or wrong?

    I think I am either going to switch to 3 yearly vaccine or titre test. Poor Diesel has skin problems/allergies and I have read this can be made worse by yearly vaccination. I recently asked my vet about it, they had to get back to me as titre testing is not something they usually offer. They admitted they liked seeing the dog once a year regardless of vaccination.

    My question is what about clubs that require proof of vaccination before you join?
    "Take this trouble for me: Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim"
    Max von Stephanitz

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    Re: Annual vaccinations - Right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kavik
    I think I am either going to switch to 3 yearly vaccine or titre test. Poor Diesel has skin problems/allergies and I have read this can be made worse by yearly vaccination. I recently asked my vet about it, they had to get back to me as titre testing is not something they usually offer. They admitted they liked seeing the dog once a year regardless of vaccination.

    My question is what about clubs that require proof of vaccination before you join?
    Convince them to accept titres :P If I was going to trial in anything then I'd just go the 3 year one initially (at either 16 weeks or 12 months) then hopefully in 3 years clubs start to use their collective brains and figure out that titres are perfectly acceptable :P

    Though, I am still of the opinion that unless you need them (titres) then they are useless. I raised this on DOL as well and the consensus was that titre testing is all about convincing the owner that their dog is immunized, as the result means nothing for the reasons I outlined earlier.

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