Thread: How relevant is Sch to Current GSD Breeding

But really your questions do not make any sense at all, you just want things to suit you.
Whether that is because you cannot be bothered to get off your backside and title a dog , or whether it is to hard, I do not know.
How much clearer can Neville make it for you.
Facts are facts

I have to agree here with Katie

From personal experience not putting the Schutzhund dogs their titles or the people that do it down.

I have had some Bad experiences in my local club. I have total respect for the sport for any sport but I have chosen not to put my dog through that as I believe she is enjoying the Real work more, than the sport the way it was presented to me, and my dog.

That does not take away from her ability to do the sport or to be very successful in it but any sport is not the be all end all within the working dog world. I think it is better then doing noting. but any sport has its limitations as well and we should not criticize any one for participating or not in any given dog sport.

I for one think that no sport is as good as the real thing. but not all people who have working dog breeds will go and do the real thing so to those people i would prefer that you do some form of dog sport as this at least will show that the dog is trainable, and to some degree will prove his or her character.

I believe that we should STOP all this bitching that one is better then other because at the end of the day i would prefer some one doing any sport rather then locking their dog in a back yard and doing nothing.

There are far to many people here with BIG EGOS and even BIGGER MOUTHS who train their mouths instead of their dogs.

Why cant we just appreciate the commitment that any one has put in to their dogs no matter what sport or real thing they do.

I think that we all would be better for it.

Adam VIPSS

Originally Posted by John Evans

There is nothing at all wrong in a forum member voicing their opinion……hell that’s what the forum is all about, however when posts start to degenerate to accusations about somebody’s credibility, and smug comments ending in Tiger, Dude, Professor, then it all becomes a little childish.

If we all agreed, wouldn’t it be bloody boring? The forum is here for debate, so why the need to get personal?

John
I see how you put my comments up only, and all your followers thank you,
I also see how you failed to put up the personal digs prior to these from others such as matey, or assumption kev.
We can all nit pick.

Just one more thing to add.

I enjoy to see any dog breed participating in any discipline when i see a dog with great ob, great focus and in sink with the owner/handler.

And I cant stand unruly out of control dogs where i know that the owners have no clue or are just to lazy to do it.

I hope the rest of you as well.

Adam VIPSS

Originally Posted by Katie Ribarich

You missed my point, many have made it clear in this thread that ideally more titling going on would be great if access to clubs and legislation made it easier. The whole situation with the SV and emergence of the RSV2000 should be a reminder that having some kind of system is only going to be as credible as the people who uphold it.

I don't understand why you are giving some members a hard time who may not be able to accessibly title their dogs in Schutzhund, but are perhaps involved in other avenues of temperament and character testing. Consider what's absolutely important here. The whole point of Schutzhund was to preserve and evaluate the temperament qualities of the gsd for working purposes. If handlers/breeders are already using and proving them for working purposes it doesn't make a shred of sense to say that has less value. If you can't realise that good german Shepherds with proper working temperament exist in titled and untitled populations, and that preserving working abilities depends mostly on the motives and knowledge of breeders, not a title (while still an achievement is no absolute indication), then that is all there is to say.

I have probably said too much as I still have lots to learn but I know enough not to sound like I have absolute blind faith in the SV system, unless they raise their standards


Robert wrote:


Not really imo, it is a bit hard to debate when alot of questions directed at him have been ignored.

Hi Katie,

The reason Schutzhund is lacking in support and people don't partcipate as they should is purely blatent arrogance that they can magically preserve the GSD breed without it. If that was the case, surley Helmut Raiser would be capable of the same given his wealth of experience but he actually ups the anti with the RSV 2000 not excludes or waters down the testing process.

I totally agree that you can produce a working dog for a given purpose without Schutzhund testing, but single purpose GSD's is breed placement, not breed preservation. The GSD is not a solo tasking breed, it's a versatile breed that can work in many different working disciplines for which it is trained for. Schutzhund testing paints the true picture of the breeds versatility and where specific bloodlines are heading good and bad and is the reason the Schutzhund test is used as it's designed with various components for complete testing where other disciplines like KNPV doesn't test for versatility as Schutzhund does.

A solo tasking GSD that may be a great security dog but a useless family pet is not a good GSD to reproduce as it lacks versatility and is therefore contrary to the breed standards. This what people can't get through their heads is that the GSD's iconic reputation that must be preserved is a "versatile" working dog. The GSD is not supposed to be the best dog for a given application, there are better breeds for certain work, but the GSD is the second best dog at "everything" which should be every breeders priority otherwise the versatility is lost.

With regard to the GSD, hearing things like not suitable for a family pet, not suitable for security, sporting dogs are not hard enough etc etc, stems from the experience of working with crap dogs to result in such a perception, in fact they are the most laughable statements you could ever here with reference to a GSD. It's a blatent admission to the breeding of poor quality, non compliant dogs lacking the versatility to be an authentic German Shepherd Dog.

Cheers
Nev

Neville

I have to ask

What would you say if I had a working GSD but i liked another sport like KNPV for example. and my dog was very good at it.

Would you put me down because i did other sports?

Adam VIPSS

Originally Posted by adam VIPSS

Neville

I have to ask

What would you say if I had a working GSD but i liked another sport like KNPV for example. and my dog was very good at it.

Would you put me down because i did other sports?

Adam VIPSS

Hi Adam ,
do you call Nev. voicing his opinion just like everyone else does here , putting you down ?????
Come on.

regards

Rob

Rob

No i don't but you know and I am not trying to offend any one that there is more to Working dog world then any sport.

I have a friend that had a GSD now he has a malionis and he never competed in any sport, but his dogs are trained to the highest standard in this country.

He could compete with the best trained dogs in the world and yet he has no titles so does this take away from the dogs ability or his time and effort spend in selecting and training his dog to the highest level?

Adam VIPSS

Originally Posted by adam VIPSS

Rob

No i don't but you know and I am not trying to offend any one that there is more to Working dog world then any sport.

I have a friend that had a GSD now he has a malionis and he never competed in any sport, but his dogs are trained to the highest standard in this country.

He could compete with the best trained dogs in the world and yet he has no titles so does this take away from the dogs ability or his time and effort spend in selecting and training his dog to the highest level?

Adam VIPSS

Adam I agree with what you say.
But you also do not answer the said question.
Just because Neville has a different view, that does not mean he is putting anyone down .