Thread: Dutch Shepherds - To pedigree or not to pedigree.

Off Topic again, get it back ontopic.

Try to continue to explain the benefits or disadvantages of the argument

"Dutch Shepherds - To pedigree or not to pedigree."

Ok I can do this for you. Here is an email from a Swedish breeder of FCI Dutchies who used KNPV dogs in her breedings. This email goes back nearly seven years ago when I was researching all things Dutch Shepherds including getting FCI pedigreed dogs that were from KNPV lines.
I'll copy her email for you, as she had experience with getting FCI dogs from Belgium that were KNPV dogs with FCI pedigrees.
Again, maybe she is a liar as well?


Marie (vixax@veberod.com)
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Sent: Sunday, 9 November 2003 3:35:50 PM
To: 'chris jones' (harddobe@hotmail.com)

Hi Chris,

I just know that all, kennel clubs associated to FCI have their different rules about how you can register a “non pedigreed dog�

In Belgium you take the dog to 2 different dog shows with judges specialized on DS.

In Sweden its the working dog association who can decide (and they hardly ever give their permission)

I don’t know how it looks in Australia, BTW I heard that bite work wasn’t allowed in Australia?

I don’t know how Nico got his pedigree, but UKC have no cooperation with FCI..

So I can’t use American dogs (except from Seven Pines)

I guess you could try to do it the “dogshow� way in Belgium..

I suggest you contact Jean&Kathleen on kennel Van het Itterdal , they have done it twice.

They should know more than me

Br

Marie





-----Original Message-----
From: chris jones [mailto:harddobe@hotmail.com]
Sent: den 8 november 2003 13:35
To: vixax@veberod.com
Subject:




What would I have to do to get a DS registered with the Belguim DS club?

Thanks

Chris


Now you can deal with it anyway you want.
Email her and call her a liar, just like you have me. Email the kennel in Belgium that have done it with KNPV dogs, call them liars as well.

Are you for real Vendo? Seriously? Artur posts something pretty similar to which I replied to. So you then delete using your weirdo 3 post rule, Artur then posts again and you thank him? Are you dead set?

Originally Posted by Artur CK9SAS

First by your own addition you tried to get your dogs registered or get registered dogs. As mentioned many times before it is easier to get a X breed than to get the right pure breed Dutch Shepherd.

Wrong Artur. That email is around seven years old. Unlike yourself I researched every possible side to the Dutch Shepherd. I did the research on the KNPV dogs that were getting FCI papers through Belgium, Germany and Sweden.
All of this time Artur you denied this was a possibility. You called the notion "crazy" to think that the FCI would give mongrels pedigrees. Well, you are, and have been the whole time, wrong. I was right. You see Artur, thats why I have emails from this lady. I researched the open stud books in Belgium. I researched the FCI dogs without KNPV dogs in them. I spent nearly 10 years looking at them before I ended up buying them.
If I had of "tried" to get registered dogs Artur, I would have them. I can afford to spend what ever amount of money I need to to get what I want.
But you are right Artur, it is way easier to get a hard KNPV Dutchie than an FCI one, and that is pretty much why we went to the KNPV dogs. We are working dog people after all.

Originally Posted by Artur CK9SAS

Second It is hard not to wonder off topic as there are different sides to the story. Reality and Chris’s side.

Again Artur, reality came down on my side Artur.
We have finished with the whole "Can KNPV Dutchies like mine get FCI pedigrees in Belgium?" It's true. Chris 1 - Artur 0

Originally Posted by Artur CK9SAS

To suggest that FCI standard Dutch Shepherds are not suitable for police work for example is a ridicules statement and obviously a direct and desperate statement in retaliation to not having the choice of getting his dogs papered.

Artur, FCI Dutch Shpeherds DO NOT have the level of drive, hardness and nerve that the KNPV dogs have. You even have it written on your own website. These three traits are VERY important for police dogs. Having less of these traits = lesser police dogs. If we even have to have this discussion then you need some serious lessons in dog training dude.
Your one of these guys who loves it when people see all these awesome youtube clips and KNPV videos showing the unpedigreed Dutchies working their arses off, all the time trying to ride off the KNPV dogs reputation, using that to try and sell your dogs to police and military. Hypocritical you could say.
And Artur, I DO NOT WANT FCI PEDIGREED DOGS. I want WORKING DOGS. Before you even got them registered here I put on my website that we dont want anything to do with them. If you honestly think I am upset that my dogs dont have pedigrees your kidding yourself. I am way past pedigrees, especially seeing how easy they are to get from the FCI.

Originally Posted by Artur CK9SAS

I understand why some of the Dutch cross between breeds of dog, they go for temperament rather than following a breed standard – and in reality with many breeds, in particular the group 5 breeds, for security work. It requires more work to get good pedigree dog than to use X breed dogs .

Yes your correct, the KNPV run rings around the FCI ones.

Originally Posted by Artur CK9SAS

But the topic here is to pedigree or not to pedigree – As a FCI breeder who also introduced this breed into Australia and has had them registered , “I “ have a choice to pedigree or not. If you have imported a crossbred dog without papers then you no longer have that choice.

If I wanted to Artur, I could ring some breeders and get some FCI dogs imported into Oz by the end of the year. Not only that but I could get them registered, put fake pedigrees on my dogs, whatever. Having imported from sweden about three times before with GSD's its so much cheaper to get them from Sweden than Holland. You could import a puppy from Sweden for about 4500 AUD. Small change. As I said Artur, if I wanted pedigreed dogs, I would have them, but because we want the hardest dogs we can get, FCI just are not an option.

this has just gone to the wall i think in a big flaming mess

time to move on maybe quickdraw at noon might be easier

Too much - bias or unbias the thread is closed. If you want to continue start a new thread in the verified section.


Giving out personal digs dose nothing for the topic.