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Reply With QuoteBrad Griggs (08-03-2010), Laurie Boutzetis (08-02-2010), Vendo Vincent (07-31-2010)
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Below is a proposal put forward by RSPCA in conjunction with Government for the CONTROL of breeding dogs.It is touted as there End Puppy Farms campaign.Call me cynical but it is has more sinister overtones to me.This has been bandied around for a few years,maybe to soften people up for what was coming.They are throwing a lot of money behind it which says to me it is more than a push and maybe a foregone conclusion.Once again we are going to get shafted and they wont even kiss you first.I find some of the proposals dont right scarey,whilst in principle some of it seems ok it never ends up how its tabled and once you let legislation pass it will be amended at a whim with no say.Start writing to your local MP's and make them aware it is an issue before its too late.
Proposals:
1. Regulation of breeders
• All breeders should be required to obtain a government licence to breed dogs - whether
they are breeding purebred, cross-bred or mixed-bred dogs, and whether they breed
commercially or as a hobby.
• Licensing needs to be conditional on compliance with a Code of Practice outlining
enforceable minimum standards.
• The licensing system could be similar to that used for car dealers, real estate agents and
tradesman. Having a license will allow governments and the RSPCA to monitor compliance
with regulations and will provide some assurance to consumers about legitimacy of the
breeder.
• The licensing system should encourage breeders to attain a high level of professionalism
with respect to their breeding operation.
2. Regulation of sale
• A reputable website for sale of companion animals could be established. Criteria for
listing would include: providing the street address of kennels, compliance with the Code
of Practice, provision of a licence number, provision of information about membership of
any breed association and provision of an ABN or similar number.
• State/Territory Legislation should incorporate mandatory minimum standards for pet
shops with specific requirements in relation to stopping puppy farming being:
o animals held for sale can only be obtained from government registered/licensed
breeders or suppliers
o full disclosure by the seller of the veterinary practitioner who assessed the animals
prior to purchase including a veterinary certificate recording all vaccinations and other
treatments
o full disclosure by the seller of the breeder’s name and contact details
o the sale of desexed dogs (and cats) only, unless selling to a licensed breeder
o the ability to return a puppy for whatever reason within 14 days. This must include
the provision of veterinary treatment or reimbursement of the cost of veterinary
treatment for pre-existing illness or congenital disorders.
• Consumer complaint procedures need to be in place and accessible so that buyers can
feel confident of recourse during the sale process if necessary.
3. Tightening of export provisions for sale of puppies overseas
Puppy farmers can currently access lucrative overseas markets by selling unregistered
purebred (without pedigree) or crossbred dogs to puppy wholesalers overseas, often for
substantially more money than they would obtain in Australia.
• The minimum age for export of puppies for commercial purposes should be raised to 6
months.
• Exemptions should only be given on a case-by-case basis and only when the puppy is
travelling to accompany the existing owner overseas (ie for non-commercial purposes).
• Any breeder who exports dogs over 6 months of age must be licensed and comply with a
regulated Code of Practice (see 1 above) before being granted permission to export dogs
or puppies. This should include the dog being desexed unless it is destined to be a
breeding animal owned by a licensed breeder in the importing country.
4. Tightening compliance with taxation laws
• The Australian Taxation Office should target investigative efforts at illegal puppy farming
operations. The ATO should be required to inform the relevant government authority of
any positive identification of a puppy farm in order that the welfare of the animals can be
assessed.
5. Amendments to animal welfare legislation
State/Territory animal welfare legislation should be amended to incorporate provisions for:
• Prohibition Orders to be obtained preventing further ownership of animals prior to
conviction, to prevent puppy farmers from continuing their business while legal
proceedings are underway
• Defendants to be required to pay court bonds prior to any litigation appeals or appeals in
relation to the forfeiture of animals. The bond amount should be based on the financial
cost of caring for the dogs on a daily basis, acknowledging that during this period such
this care is being provided by RSPCA or other rescue group and not by the defendant.
Where a court bond is not paid, the owner would be required to surrender the animals for
rehoming.
6. Education
• Raise community awareness about the scale and problems created by puppy farming in
Australia.
• Ensure wide availability of consistent information for consumers giving tips on questions to
ask and responsible places to go when buying a puppy. The RSPCA has recently released
the RSPCA Smart Puppy Buyers Guide to help consumers in this way (download from
Home | RSPCA Australia | For all creatures, great & small.).
• Provide information to vets and pet supply stores to help them identify possible puppy
farm operators. Indications of a puppy farm operator include consulting large numbers of
puppies but rarely, if ever, treating adult dogs, breeders reluctant to entertain home
visits by vets, the regular purchase of large volumes of food and/or other pet supplies.
7. Reporting suspicious activities
• Formalise a reporting process for vets, pet supply stores or members of the community to
notify the RSPCA or government authorities if they suspect one of their clients is running a
puppy farm operation.
Brad Griggs (08-03-2010), Laurie Boutzetis (08-02-2010), Vendo Vincent (07-31-2010)
Firstly thanks to Shane for this informative post.
I have read this a few times so far and in principal I don't have a huge problem with it - but in saying that my cynical side tells me "if they can twist it - they will".
Given my cautious outlook I do see some positives, such as FULL disclosure of the breeders, websites etc... after all, people should know who they are dealing with. If we draw comparisons to the motor vehicle industry, the manufacturers spend time and money building their brand and the consumers' trust in them, in the hope of both one time and or repeat sales. I tend to view dogs in much the same way (some might take exception to this and I can understand that, dogs/animals tend to draw a more emotive response than cars), but I say this with the motivation and hope that I am in this game for the long haul - I have invested far too much in terms of both time/effort and money to chase the quick sale without the substance required of any business to survive and thrive in the years to come.
My view of my kennel for my chosen breed is one of longevity & customer satisfaction. These types of guidelines if brought to bear from the correct perspective can only be good.
Now for some controversy (as if we dont have enough) - I have recently met an individual who makes a living from the "farming of dogs" - his words, not mine. This is an individual that has previously farmed sheep and cattle and now prefers dogs. He has over $1.5 million invested in his state of the art facilities, which exceed all codes, be it council or rspca - he employs qualified staff, is a leader in artificial insemination technology and manages the sale of his puppies to the customer - so, my question to the forum is: given this individual exceeds all of the current code requirements and would easily fulfill the criteria as set out above, is what he does wrong, based on the number of puppies he breeds? I am very interested in people's opinions on this one.
Brad Griggs (08-03-2010), Shane Johnson (08-02-2010)
I agree with some of the things in principle but I will say Laurie the full disclosure part isnt a major concern for me because when I buy a dog I investigate that the person is legitimate and they are who they say they are.If something sounds dodgy it usually is but I also understand that the GP need to be protected too.My main concerns are their motivation for the legislation as I dont see it being as much about animal wlefare as I do about raising revenue for government coffers.The fact that they will still alow pet shops to sell pups and that they dont care if people are hobby breeders or breed cross bred dogs they still want to regualte.I guess people can look at it that its comon snese and they will regualte everyone and clean up the industry.they do not have the resources now so how in the hell are they going to police it?Good in theory but it wont happen.It is just money grabbing.
Also what about free ad website where you can advertise pups?There are a few around and I wont name them but what if the owners decide to host these websites outside of Australia therefore the government has no control over them and puppy farmers are still free to advertise what ever they want.Are they going to get officers to ring everyone and visit every premise to see if they are licensed?They do not have the physical man power to do so.Puppy farms will still thrive as it is easy to circumvent anything if you really want to.You show me a system and I will tell you how to bypass it.As far as your puppy farmer goes as long as that person meets the requirements then there is no problem as far as they are concerned.I also dont have a huge problem if the person is responsibly placing puppies and theya re of the quality he is advertising them as thn good luck to him but eventually all markets decrease over time when they become flooded.Myself I have bred one litter in the last 18 months - 2 years.I mainly breed for myself.I buy large amounts of dog food at once sometimes up to 300kg in a day from 3 differnt places.Does that make me a puppy farm?I rarely take my dogs to the vet unless they need it.Any vet can look at my dogs at any time and they will be 100% healthy.I treat my own dogs myself unless it is out om my league and I do not let dogs suffer.Why should I give the government anymore of my hard earned money?
I dont want to get off track but I think we already live in the most over regulated over governed over taxed country on the planet and now they wont to encroach on you life even more.I say no,sometimes you have to take a stand for what is right.I think this is more about money than it is about dogs but that is just my opinion
Brad Griggs (08-03-2010), Laurie Boutzetis (08-02-2010)
I also wanted to add I have major concerns about people like the one you mentioned Laurie if this proposal goes through.When registered breeders get driven out of the market becuase of the cost,commercial interest will step in to fill the void and as long as they abide by the code they will be allowed.You only have to look at Singapore where this happens.In the eastern part their are large scale puppy farms with pet shop fronts over many many acres.To the Singaporeans this is normal and where you go to get a pet.Many dogs there will have come from here.I also dont have a problem with healthy pups being sold overseas even if they are brokered as obviously there is a market.In the proposal they wanted to stop you sending dogs under 6 months old.That is utter bullshit and will stop all breeders from exporting pups.There are a lot of holes in the proposal and it will not acheive the objectives that it is supposedly designed to do but will penalise many across the board.I dont think that will be fair and equitable but then again governments arent about being fair and equitable are they.I think it is prime time to write to your mp coming upp to an election.Although I doubt you will get a response beofre election day conveniently.I just received a reply today after witing to a Minister 3 and a half months ago.I wrote a second letter a month ago telling them I wa disappointed but not surprised at the lack of response and their treating voters with comtempt and maybe I should take my vote elsehwere.Surprise after all this time I get a response just before election day but I guess I am just a cynic.
Last edited by Shane Johnson; 08-03-2010 at 12:43 AM.
Brad Griggs (08-03-2010), Laurie Boutzetis (08-03-2010)
Shane, I agree with much of what you write.
Sadly, even with this proposed code of conduct, the way in which it will affect peoples operations and practices, and the way that they choose to approach the ethics of dog breeding for profit will come down to one unassailable truth; the true nature of the person will win out, the good will continue to do good, the bad will continue to operate according to their mindset.
As for writing MP's mate, I am all out of vig for that activity given the latest stoush we have had here in Victoria!
BG
Now for some controversy (as if we dont have enough) - I have recently met an individual who makes a living from the "farming of dogs" - his words, not mine. This is an individual that has previously farmed sheep and cattle and now prefers dogs. He has over $1.5 million invested in his state of the art facilities, which exceed all codes, be it council or rspca - he employs qualified staff, is a leader in artificial insemination technology and manages the sale of his puppies to the customer - so, my question to the forum is: given this individual exceeds all of the current code requirements and would easily fulfill the criteria as set out above, is what he does wrong, based on the number of puppies he breeds? I am very interested in people's opinions on this one.
Laurie
For all intents and purposes I see nothing wrong with his operation, obviously going on the details you've provided, however the term "manages the sale of his puppies" seems a little on the ambiguous side for me if he indeed refers to his business as "farming dogs". Now if somebody invests "over $1.5 million in state of the art facilities, and employs qualified staff", the motivation in this case would have to be PROFIT, therefore is this really conducive with the betterment of the canine world as a breeder, or is it merely a profit making production line? What puzzles me (and I’m not a farmer or primary producer) is surely if as you say “this is an individual that has previously farmed sheep and cattle and now prefers dogs”, farming dogs as he puts it takes much more time, trouble, staff, and expense generally, therefore with a breeding facility of this size, particularly if profit is the motivation, corners would sooner or later be cut, and we are all well aware of where this leads.
Just my thoughts on it.
Brad Griggs (08-03-2010), Laurie Boutzetis (08-03-2010), Robert Santori (08-07-2010), Shane Johnson (08-07-2010)
yup dogs are not cows or sheep and somehow we are starting to get the attitude that they are, and its perfectly acceptable to treat them like that. You can have everything clean and shiny BUT
- are you health testing your dog for genetic conditions, are all dogs being hip/elbow scored, PRA tested, heart tested etc
- are you properly socialising the pups to ensure they are truely great family pets
- are you happy to cull out poor temperaments or health problem animals from your dogs or cull whole disaster litters
- are you breeding for quality pups or just breeding on for profit
- are you relying on the fact a bitch needs to pump out a litter every season to make her financially viable
- are that many dogs needs truely taken care of, or are they just left to their own devices until breeding time comes around. Especially small/toy breeds bred to be so human orientated, how do they go living in pens with minimal human contact
- is a puppy farmer really going to say no to a purchaser willing to dish out their exhorberant prices
- is a puppy farmer going to care at all how that animal is going to live out its life
- is that puppy farmer going to want to take that animal back if its not suitable or at least help rehome it (PMSL ... that would be a new one)
I'm sure we all know there is a lot to dogs. I see enough puppy farmed dogs around here (majority of pet dogs are farmed or BYB) and the number of them I see that are aggressive, crazy, shy or even just feral from poor genetics and NO proper socialisation is astounding. Dogs with inheritable genetic conditions that simple tests and some brains could have prevented. Then the dogs that are gotten rid of at the end of the day due to being poor mothers or, god forbid, requiring $$ spent on decent veterinary care.
When money is the primary focus, the animals will always come last. That is a guarentee. I've seen it from registered breeders as well as backyard and puppy farmers. I think we need to abolish that whole mass scale farming of dogs for no good reason then money.
Laurie Boutzetis (08-04-2010), Robert Santori (08-07-2010), Shane Johnson (08-07-2010)
I agree Brad no code of conduct will change peoples ethics in that respect but what I take umbrage at is their contempt for dog breeders.They already know it wont change anything.They just want their slice of the pie irrespective of were it comes from.Where I come from that is commoly referred to as the 'standover'.I understand about being all out of vig as I have written dozens upon dozens of letters over the years and I know one more wont make a difference but 100,000 will.Numbers equal votes and if it is too much of an issue and enough people voice their opinion it will die a natural death.Originally Posted by Brad Griggs
Last edited by Shane Johnson; 08-07-2010 at 12:32 AM.
Brad Griggs (08-07-2010)
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