|
|
|
||||||||
Looks like a backfire - I spoke to Nick Branson as I go to Deakin univeristy, to ask him the point of the survey. He new little about working dogs, training dogs and said they only included Schutzhund dogs because someone from the Schutzhund association thought it would be a good idea. I refused to fill in the survey, something didnt sit right with me.
Well now they've skewed it. Of course. Now we're terrible people who electrocute their dogs. This survey was to help draft legislation for working dogs - watch more banning come into play thanks to the results.
Electric shock alarm on dogs | Herald Sun
ELECTRIFIED shock collars are being used as a cruel "quick-fix" tool in training one in five working dogs.
A survey of more than 4000 dog owner and trainers by the Australian Animal Welfare Strategy to help formulate new national guidelines found 20 per cent used the collars.
They are most common in private industry, such as for guard dogs and on farms - with few used on racing or government dogs.
For the collars to be legal the owner must get the dog checked annually by a veterinarian.
Deakin University behavioural scientist Dr Nick Branson, who conducted the research, said the results were "disturbing".
Dr Branson said the collars were used as a "quick fix" to train dogs, but they did not work because dogs were unable to associate punishment with a certain behaviour.
"The dog becomes fearful and in some cases it can be catastrophic, because it is unable to associate what behaviour is causing them to get the shock," Dr Branson said.
The collars are generally operated by remote control and are used to shock the dog when it does some- thing wrong.
Their use has been slammed by RSPCA president Dr Hugh Wirth, who said they could be considered cruel and the collars did not produce any desired behaviour.
"I have never recommended the use of these collars," Dr Wirth said.
"They do not deal with the issues of training ... in many cases they could be being used outside the law."
Victorian Working Sheep Dog Association President Colin Reid said while it was common knowledge that electric collars were used, it was not something that was openly spoken about.
"There is no doubt that it happens, you would be a fool to think they are not. I personally don't agree with the collars and wouldn't use them," Mr Reid said.
"They are not looked on favourably in the industry, there is no real need for them.
"People who use them do it on their own private property and probably don't mention it publicly."
Dr Branson said positive reinforcement was the most common training tool, with dogs working in government getting food as a reward and dogs in service getting praise.
"It is surprisingly high ... we found that generally, the more educated the person was in training dogs the less likely they were to use the collars."
The issue is being examined in depth by ABC's Landline this Sunday at midday.
I agree I saw this or something similar a mile off when this survey first came out, as did most other people in the industry.Originally Posted by Julie Kopunovich
I will agree on this point though I think people need education on the use of the collars first befor they use them, quickest way to f*** up a good dog.
Vendo.
------ TALK IS CHEAP.... SHOW US YOUR DOG.
I had my own concerns about this survey.It didn't 'seem' right...I naturally did not fill in any of it. Glad Hugh wirthless is going to one day have to retire even if that is from choking on his BS!
Agree people need to use all tools properly but that is human error not the tools used....
Cheers
Amy
Here we go again....another shot in the arm for balanced dog trainers..and trying to turn all of Australia in to totally positive trainers. Should have guessed RSPCA and Animal Welfare had something to do with all of this.
I for one am not against e-collars when used correctly.. I do not use them on my own dog, nor do I use them on clients dogs anymore. I feel for the average pet dog owner they are not required. I do feel though that a small percentage of dogsport people could be going overboard with them just to gain an extra few points, and to make themselves look good.
I do agree with their use in RESPONISBLE hands!!! Pity the irresponisble outnumber the responsible.
Unfortunately it appears that a lot of ego is involved in the working dog fraternity.. you just have to look what went on in this forum in the past to see that ego's are the biggest enemies to dogsport. Thats for another post
I like the quote "Dr Branson said positive reinforcement was the most common training tool, with dogs working in government getting food as a reward and dogs in service getting praise". LOL.. So government departments don't use any form of NEGATIVE reinforcement? I think Dr Branson needs to get out more!!! Is he also sugesting that those that incorporate negative reinforcement DON'T use positives?!!!! Here we have a guy just like Dr Wirth, with NO practical experience sprooking of at the mouth, and not even knowing what he is talking about!!
It's about time governments departments such as the police, customs and the military spoke up and told the truth about their training methods, and not let these do gooders sprook all this shit and have average joe blow believe it!!!!
Australia is becoming the joke of the dog world!!!
I know Mark. And I do not use them either I don't need them for my clients but a fellow trainer finds them very useful for dogs on the last chance after stock chasing/killing, and I know a few people use them for fine tuning their performance dogs through negative reward. It doesnt mean I want them banned. Static anti bark collars as well are very valuable since we do not allow debarking in Vic either unless the dog is on its last chance as well.
I wrote an email to Nick Branson, if you search on the Deakin website his email address is available publicly. He has really shown LACK of knowledge about dog training completely. Email him I think more of us should! I'm surprised they didnt mention prong collars but I dont think they were on the questionnaire originally unless I'm mistaken...
How many times I have to keep telling people positive reinforcement is NOT a complete way of training! It is only a facet of an overall method! Even 'positive' people use negative punishment on their dogs, witholding treats or attention with sin binning! Hello! No training is really 'punishment' free if you analyse it properly. And the number of owners I see berated into thinking a correction or gruff growl at the dog will scar them for life or make them abusers is quite terrifying. I never condone cruelty or violence but a dog is a dog, not a person you can rationalise with over a cuppa. Black and white, reward and correction when required it's not hard.
Makes you want to move to europe ...
Totally agree Julie
Think I may sit and write Dr Branson an e-mail over the weekend... Not that it will do any good, but may help relieve some of my current anger about allowing uninformed people with lack of knowledge and experience getting out there and sprooking on like they are experts... Think I'll ask Dr Branson to come spend a few days with me, and help sort out a few of my clients dogs...Maybe he can teach me something!
I'd like to clarify something I wrote in my pervious post. Wrote it in a rush as I was so angry at what I read in the first post.
I stated that: Pity the irresponisble outnumber the responsible. I should not have wrote this as to be fair I do believe their are more responsible people using the collars than irresponsible. Unfortunately it's only the irresponsible we hear about, so these do-gooders can further their cause.
I however feel these collars are too easily purchased, by people that have no idea on how to use them correctly. Look how many e-collar online shops have opened up in the past 12 months or so. We really do need in my opnion to shut this down, and only make them available through qualified people.. DOG TRAINERS and BEHAVIOURISTS. People should be instructed how to use them correctly before being allowed to purchase them... But NO...just like BSL, we ban the equipment so responsible people cannot use them....
Think I'll become a florist... Not sure there is anything there that these do-gooders can complain about, that do their best to make balanced dog trainers and behaviourists look like criminals!!
Had enough!
hi all
opps !!!!
here is his email address
nick.branson@deakin.edu.au
do feel free to write to him!!!!
cheers
jay
I think he should be given an invitation by some of our better trainers that use the collars, close to him, to show him how they should be used.
Again it has to do with little education and ignorance in his case.
Lets teach them, come on we can be the first to change their minds....
I don't use them but would to sort a problem I couldn't do any other way.eg car casing.
Though before I would use it on my dog I'd used it on me and get trained on how to use it properly by someone in the know.
Again we are talking about education, there is so much to teach people.
And what gave him the idea you hurt your dog with the collar to train it. What I have read has nothing to do with zapping your dog into doing something through pain, it is zapping your dog so it is like a light tug on their collar, ok it wouldn't be like that all the time but most by the ones that care.
Ena
I think you will find that this is in response to the ban being lifted from importing electric collars and (I think) pinch collars into the country. The RSPCA and other groups were not impressed.
Vendo.
------ TALK IS CHEAP.... SHOW US YOUR DOG.
You are most probably right Vendo.
Has the importation ban on Pinch Collars also been lifted?
Actions : (View-Readers)
Posting Permissions
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote
