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Often times I hear people talk about a 'fully trained' dog that they have for sale or have owned. I thought this had potential as a thread, so here we go!
'Fully trained' is a term that is often used, but ALWAYS erroneously. A dog can never be fully trained, as there is always a situation, or variation of a previous situation, that the dog has not been proofed in. There is just no logical arguement, and although some of my associates use this term, upon further discussion they would all conceed the point.
'Fully trained' also clearly implies that no further training is needed...and we all understand the importance of maintenance.
'Fully trained' is also a greatly used term in the sales of pre-trained dogs. Often you can find that horrible mob in Sydney (the one with the very comedic promotional video!) using terms like 'fully trained' right alongside other evocative terms like 'attack dog' and 'manstopper'. Although it clearly would help to sell dogs, I think that responsible trainers should be careful to steer clear of it's use.
If we as a dog training community want to be better understood by Joe Public (or in Victoria's case, being understood by Joe Helper would suffice) then I would suggest that our language needs to be as transparent as possible.
depends on what the dogs trained in sport or work
if sport i would want to see proof and video of the level completed
PPD- good obd, complient confident on the sleeve suit work a bonus and out on comand
security- to the level of a police dog but all the search and tracking stuff opitional because in security its very very rare to use
Regards
Nathan
"Cave Canem"
Gday Nathan,
I personally dont believe that the use of the term 'fully trained' in any arena is correct or honest. A dog can never be fully trained. It can have completed a title or qualification, it can be highly trained, well trained, well proofed, highly experienced, but no dog can truly be fully trained.
As for your comments regarding curriculum for the dog as specified by his task, a PPD or a security dog are the same thing when trained to best practice, although many dogs that are worked in the security industry would never cut it as a PPD dog in a family environment, or living as part of a highly sociable lifestyle with its handler.
I’d agree Brad, “fully trained” is a bit of a misnomer, and “highly trained” is open to interpretation. I imagine all trainers have their own idea about what is “highly trained”, and it’s no doubt all the dog/s they’ve trained themselves.I think “well trained” maybe a good compromise which covers any and all levels in whatever role, and any dog which has had input on a regular basis and can perform (present is probably a better word) that input in a satisfactory manner as trained. And we know that however "well trained" our dogs are, they always have "off" days..........and make us look like right plonkers
i agree that no dog is fully trained u can cross train or add to or teach it to do back flips
but.. it is a common term used all over the world so whats the point in trying to change it we all have our own concept of the meaning
and the other thing you have to account to is one mans fully trained dog could and can be a another person starting point
i also dont think a PPD and security dog are the same thing
they may be trained using the simular methods but a different end game is required
Regards
Nathan
"Cave Canem"
Hey mate,
As for the ppd/security thing, sounds like an interesting thread...i suggest you start it up!
NO skill can EVER be FULLY trained. Training is subject to deterioration, maintenance of a skill is by default training, and therefore the use of the term fully trained is a misnomer.
I would disagree that the term is used worldwide, in fact the NDTF course was where I was introduced to this concept I have discussed....it is not an original thought, I am merely the one sharing it.
I rarely hear the term in the circles I move in, and I don't know anybody that uses the term when talking to another dog trainers.
We can all use a term if we like, but it does not make the use of that term accurate or correct in its application.
BG
[QUOTE=Nathan Cram;8914]
and the other thing you have to account to is one mans fully trained dog could and can be a another person starting point
I want to post a real view later, (so busy!) but this i couldn't help commenting...what does it mean please Nath?
every one has there opinion on a fully trained dog a fully trained dog for one person my be a lower standard for some one else
so they give the dog a new goal and go on
and a follow on from the post befor
the word fully trained is used world by seller, vendors and crooks
you just have to have a look at most classafides
Regards
Nathan
"Cave Canem"
Sorry Nath, you appear to have missed my point:
"'Fully trained' is a term that is often used, but ALWAYS erroneously. A dog can never be fully trained, as there is always a situation, or variation of a previous situation, that the dog has not been proofed in. There is just no logical arguement, and although some of my associates use this term, upon further discussion they would all conceed the point.
'Fully trained' also clearly implies that no further training is needed...and we all understand the importance of maintenance."
Sorry to quote myself from before Nath but I have some clients on in a minute need to get out door!
One persons fully trained dog cannot be anothers starting point by sheer definition mate, because no dog can ever be called fully trained.
One mans highly trained dog can, however, be another man's starting point...that is kinda my point.
Have a killer day, off to train some dogs (in the rain god dammit)!
BG
PS- Nathan, just because it is a term widely used does not make it correct to use it, and does not prevent the term from being entirely misrepresentative in nature, especially when selling a pre trained dog...in fact it is blatantly dishonest by sheer definition (even if the user of the word lacks the intent to misinform).
John,
"they always have "off" days..........and make us look like right plonkers"
yeah mate, im feeling your pain there! ha ha.
BG
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