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About LinkBacksWe are talking about JOE PUBLIC and their interpretation on what they are seeing Jeff!Originally Posted by Jeff Kouts
Here we go again..another bitch fight starting....
Nite all
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Guys I think that if we make assumptions about why someone posts a clip we do him and his dog a great disservice.
I dont recall Ben saying anything about the clip, and have not yet seen him take exception to anybody's constructive criticism regarding the dog or where they think it should head.
As for his credibility, I dont know the guy, and I think the best place to first ask the question should be via PM. If we don't get a good answer there, maybe a reply message, then the forum.
BIG DEAL either way if the raaf didnt view or test the dog....would cred be affected? YES, ONLY IF this were PROVEN to be the case.
The clip, as I understand it, speaks for itself. Clearly, this is a dog that is very strong, even if he is not to your individual taste, you would understand that he is not a dog you would find easy to break.
Lets just appreciate that a bloke had the balls to post a clip (crazy Victorian bastard Ben!!!) and take it for what it is...a brief moment, captured on video, that allows only a small insight into a dog we could never hope to fully understand the real value of given the brevity of the clip, that the owner was gracious enough to post for discussion.
He put it out there guys, he's not hiding.
He has taken it all on the chin.
Maybe be a little understanding, check on facts and give the bloke right of personal reply, and show a litttle support to a bloke starting a journey with a dog he is clearly and rightly very proud of.
Would an experienced professional trainer post that clip? HELL NO!
We all have egos (manifested in varying degrees)...that would just not do.
DO WELL BEN.
BG
Totally agree Brad.. and in no way was I trying to put Ben down..it was just a little friendly advice.... I realise Ben didn't put the video up..Chris did. I think when a video is put up like this, possibly explain in the post why. I wasn't saying anything to put Ben down..just a "personal" observation. I think Ben is doing a great job! And I look forward to seeing his dog improve over time.
One thing we need to accept about trainers.. they can't help putting thier 2 cents worth in
You will get feedback from other trainers being a lot harsher in criticisim than me.
Its not a video I would have put up myself, unless I was using it for instructional purposes, or seeking others advice..
If Ben had have said in the first post.. I am using an e-collar to stop my dog going in, but it hasn't been overly effective, can someone offer some alternative advice.. Not a problem in the world, with putting the video up.
We also have to understand and be aware that unqualified and people new to working dogs(and even those that feel they should be banned) visit this forum.. And when someone says their dog needs an e-collar to stop it from bitting, after a trainer pointing out a few things about the dogs body language.. It doen't look good, that we can only control our dog from bitting in that manner. If in the post with the video it is stated this is a training process I am using....then its seen in a different light.
If I offended you Ben, I apologise..that was not my intention... We just need to be aware how others my interpret what we post here. Was only trying to help
We are talking about JOE PUBLIC and their interpretation on what they are seeing Jeff!
Here we go again..another bitch fight starting....
Nite all
If that was an old video ,
Do you have control of the dog now ????
If I read right you said that was a few years old.
same people as all ways arguing and pushing the same old argument that died ages ago cant u all move on
and keep a thread on track
people wonder why there isnt more videos of members dogs put on the site
its becase there are more people willing to put some one down than be helpfull than add constructive comments
Regards
Nathan
"Cave Canem"
HI All
I did not have this video posted so it can turn into a slinging match, hence why I have refrained from commenting, constructive criticism of a training video is always welcome, however there are to many hidden agendas and people trying to bring disrepute to other members of the forum.
I have no time for this, I am currently having the video removed, also I am in the process of removing myself from the forum. If it was just about good working dogs then no problems but the constant BS, is enough to drive anyone insane.
Bye for now
I just think there is an interpretation issue here.
I am sure EVERYONE knows that the RAAF does not contract any breeders.. A breeder sugests they assess a dog, if the RAAF assessses the dog as suitable. and is what they are looking for, then they purchase the dog. I do not think anyone was seriously sugesting they have A contract with the military.
I really think all this argument and inuendo is just peoples egos getting a little inflamed
Breeders that promote the fact that the RAAF has purchased dogs from them (or any government department for that matter), has a right to advertise the fact..and this promotion does add credibilty to your breeding, no doubt.
I sugest everyone calm down and just think a little clearer
The way I look at it, if you want a video clip of your dog posted/or you post one, you’ve got to accept that you are inviting comments………providing they’re not just posted to deride you or your dog, or smart-arsed remarks which are just to cause offence, which is totally unnecessary, I can’t see a problem. Let’s be honest, if you feel so inclined it isn't that difficult to edit any video clip to only show what you want people to see, but to post warts and all is not only being honest and up front, but is also IMO very commendable.
I totally agree...and some will see things in these videos that others may not..so may comment on what they see.. It's never about attacking anyone.
I personally do not feel I attacked Ben or his dog in any way. I just stated a personal observation..whether it is taken on board or not is up to the person that put the video up.
I also feel we need to be aware of what we post here, videos and text. There are many, many, many government organisations, welfare groups, and joe public that visit this forum to get their own amunition to fight against the right to participate in dog sport or breed these types of dogs.
When we post a video..in my opnion always give a full detailed acount of what is happening in the video and why.. If there are vidoes showing not so good control for example, then state that in your post in the video, and what you are doing to correct the problem. Many not so knowledgeable or against the working dog community will use whatever they can to fight their cause. Don't just expect everybody to understand what they are looking at. Explain from your perspective what they are seeing in the video.
My posts to Ben were only to sugest that when he or others post videos, be very aware of what you are posting..as we do not want to add fuel to the fire for all those against the working dog breed or training in Australia.
It honestly in my opinion, doesn't sound good when someone states in a forum that they have to resort an e-collar to stop a dog biting.. State its a training method/process you are working through with the dog. Remember many will interpret what you say or show differently, don't give them more fuel than they already have.......
If some consider what I said was wrong..thats fair enough, I can accept that... My number one concern is that we promote all areas of working dogs in a positive note..and to always be aware..there are eyes watching these forums, and some of those eyes are not so friendly to our cause..
But Mark that is clearly how some one tried to come across.I just think there is an interpretation issue here.
I am sure EVERYONE knows that the RAAF does not contract any breeders.. A breeder sugests they assess a dog, if the RAAF assessses the dog as suitable. and is what they are looking for, then they purchase the dog. I do not think anyone was seriously sugesting they have A contract with the military.
I really think all this argument and inuendo is just peoples egos getting a little inflamed
Breeders that promote the fact that the RAAF has purchased dogs from them (or any government department for that matter), has a right to advertise the fact..and this promotion does add credibilty to your breeding, no doubt.
I sugest everyone calm down and just think a little clearer
That he has contracts with the RAAF , office of corrections and police. Also that he did not need to advertise, as he has contracts with all of the above.
Go back and read his post again.
To me he was trying to take us for idiots.
That is clearly what he was trying to suggest to us.
Adam VIPSS
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