Thread: Damn irresponsible trainers!

This angers me how some ppl do agression before obedience training.
Obedience is the bones(structure) all dogs should start with.
Looks like you are trying your best to get the whole story too. Which is very good of u considering the bite.
Hope your wound heals well!

This is a common problem, here in Nth Qld i've encounted at least 5 trained guard dogs sold to inexprienced handlers,and none of these people are in security or any related field. These dogs are bought as home protection. Over time I have seen the outcome and out of the 5 only 1 remains with the people that purchased the dog, Some were put down, the others were rehomed.
One which seems relivant to the topic was a 3yr old GSD. I recieved a phone call from a lady, she was crying and obviously under stress, she explained that her dog had become aggressive to her and her husband over the last couple of months and they were actually fearful of the dog.
On arrival to the property I was greeted by a man holding a leather muzzled GSD on a e-collar. (at this piont I knew what I was looking at).
He proceeded to tell me they had purchased the dog 12 mths before hand from a training centre in Sydney ( for $9800 I might add). and he was a FULLY TRAINED GUARD DOG (I just love that phrase). Once they had paid for the dog they where shown a few things over a hour couple of hours and that was that. They came home with their new dog and treated him like there normal pets. No boundries, no training, sleeping on the couch etc.
The dog started with growls and eventually biting them, the husband feared for his wife, the poor guy explained he actually had visioned coming home from work and seeing his wifes legs dangling out of the cage.
There fear was too intense, we had to re-home this dog.
Now don't get me wrong this is not a bad dog, He's very dominant and was able to manipulate the situation to his advantage, as we all know they will if allowed.
The good news is he was re-homed, into a security feild with an experienced handler and is doing what he was trained to do.
I know as a K9 handler it took me a lot longer than a couple of hours to understand what you can and can't do with a dog like that. (i dunno i might be just slow).

I totally agree with you Jason - I think there really needs to be a big cleanup of being able to purchase "trained" dogs over the internet.

Most go to inexperienced people. Many (not all) of these businesses selling trained dogs do not vet their clients, and ensure they are selling the right dog to the right owners. Or even if the client is even suitable for these types of dogs. Its all about the money and nothing else.

These new dog ownrs receive virtually no training, and are left to their own devices once the dog is shipped or taken from the property.

That company you mention in Sydney has a very bad reputation for this. I have seen some of their dogs, and also seen so called "working dog" pups they have sold for big money.. People get ripped off because they don't understand what they are getting.

One guy I know, purchased their video and thougfht "WOW", so went and brought a pup from them. This pup a "Dobie", was eventually put to sleep, due to medical conditions.

I saw this video they sell as being an "Award Winning Video". It is a whole lot of crap showing an overweight GSD trying to do bitework and swimming in a damn..and a totally out of control Dobie that is kept muzzled.


Just an addon: This Dobie pup arrived full of worms, and no vaccination certificates. As I say the pup was eventually put to sleep. The guy had to fight them for months to get any money back.

I bought their dvd as well, being a novice I thought they had great dogs ha :P I couldn't imagine that $45k to 60k dobe they used to have for sale on their website.

The video is shocking, it's like late 80's early 90's. The gsd you mention is over weight and struggles. The big brown dobe doing crowd control ha. I'm amazed people pay huge prizes for these animals.

Originally Posted by Brad Griggs

BUYING ANY TRAINED DOG IS A MATTER OF BUYER BEWARE

Sadly most people selling these dogs out there are morally bankrupt, and have no idea about what is really required by their clientelle.

As somebody who has sold trained dogs I TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR EDUCATING THE BUYER IMPARTIALLY FIRST. Education is the key to people getting a stable animal that is a good fit for them and their situation.

Sydney Guard Dog Training Centre = CROOKS

I have personal friends that have lost up to $30k to them, and have been charged with fixing many of the problems they create in dogs they have sold to the unwitting public.

I have tried to chat with them on the phone, but they always find an excuse to hang up! Truth is they couldn't teach a bored dog to dig a hole...literally.

My dear mate went against my advice and bought a 'fully trained' black male 18mo GSD for $6000, and recieved a 4yo+ grey-muzzled shitfighter that didnt even know basic obedience commands and appeared to have terrible hips.

They asked him to send the dog back after much arguement and replaced it with an unpapered GSD puppy.

GDTC do more damage to the working dog industry than any other single entity in this country, and if you do business with them you dance with the devil.

The owners were even interviewed by a state gov't small business initiative, and when asked what the most important element of success was for a small business he replied "Learn how to count money!".

Nuff said, be warned!

Hi Brad ,
Sadly we have breeders and trainers here in Melbourne that are similar in their ethics if not worse.

Sad what happened to you Mark. If we can learn from your unfortunate experience it would be this. If a dog is not yours (it is a clients dog) never assume and take appropriate measures to protect yourself. A simple muzzle on the dog before you decide to take hold of that lead is a must especially with a dog that you have observed to show nerves behaviour (as pointed out). After all telling people that they have to go and see professional trainer is not enough as we don’t have any guidelines set. So how do we determine whether I am a good trainer or not?? All trainers think that they are good, just ask any of them.
Artur

Originally Posted by Artur CK9SAS

Sad what happened to you Mark. If we can learn from your unfortunate experience it would be this. If a dog is not yours (it is a clients dog) never assume and take appropriate measures to protect yourself. A simple muzzle on the dog before you decide to take hold of that lead is a must especially with a dog that you have observed to show nerves behaviour (as pointed out). After all telling people that they have to go and see professional trainer is not enough as we don’t have any guidelines set. So how do we determine whether I am a good trainer or not?? All trainers think that they are good, just ask any of them.
Artur

I respect your advice Artur, and in many situations I agree with you.. However you weren't there. If I muzzled evey dog that looked a little unsure, thats all I would be doing in my job. You have no idea how many homes I go into each month to work with aggressive dogs. 2 or 3 major bites over 30 years working with dogs fulltime is in my opnion a VERY good track record. I consider myself pretty switched on in regards to reading dogs. I have been involved with dogs that showed a lot more insecure aggression than this dog. This dog showed non.To me it was an automatic response to training I didn't realise had been done. Remember I spent time with this dog not 6 months ago interacting with him, and he was very social. Yes this dog was a little unsure when he got out of the car...but nothing that concerned me. He didn't consider me a threat, when.. I was less than half a metre away from him. He was beside me for at least 2 to 3 mins talking to the owner before I moved my arm across to take the lead..then he struck with no warning, on the movement of my arm. She didn't even expect him to react that way, nor did I.

You may go around muzzling every unsure dog you come across...but to me that is not always the best way to go, and can create even more stress in a dog. If I was in the same position again would I have reacted the same way ? YES! And I have more times than I can remember. And to sugest well he was a Mal, you should have been more careful.... Hmmm.. I again disagree, sometimes in life the unexpected happens.. thats life. If I had the slightest doubt in the dog..or saw a dog tooo nervous..then yes I would have handled the situation totally differently.

In regards recommending people go to a good trainer, you seem to be sugesting its not a good idea because you can't tell if they are good or not... Hmmm, OK then just tell everyone with little or no experience or knowledge to stick to reading books.....shouldn't you seek recommendations from others before attending a trainer? Surely that accounts for a lot? I don't really understand your post.... Are you pointing the finger at me and saying it was my fault the dog bit me? Have you ever been bitten? This bite was made worse because the lady panicked and pulled the dog off me as hard as she could. I don't blame her nor the dog..nor do I believe I acted foolishly.

So how do we determine whether I am a good trainer or not?? All trainers think that they are good, just ask any of them. - Yes I believe I am..so possibly I am one of those you are talking about?