Thread: The Art of Flanking

A dog that has very low prey drive, must then be worked in defensive drive. A dog that is a 'little' unsure or nervey, will usually respond if the aggitator comes up behind the dog, grab him by his flank then turn and run off. If the dogs response to this is to turn and growl, then we have something to work on. Dog learns very quickly that going into defence and challenging, scares the threat away. We slowly build up more confidence by lots of wins.

Working some green/new dogs directly face on in defence can make a dog shut down. So flanking is used.

Mark but does that also produce fear biters... is there a fine line to this?

isnt that almost like backing a dog into the corner putting pressure on it and getting him to become defensive OR is that a total different kind of defence?

Originally Posted by vomblaksta

Mark but does that also produce fear biters... is there a fine line to this?

isnt that almost like backing a dog into the corner putting pressure on it and getting him to become defensive OR is that a total different kind of defence?

That's what I am wondering,given some dogs need more encouragement to go into defense,it makes sense but what if somebody walks up along side said dog and dog whirls around and takes a bite to be left alone......If it's a fearful dog.I guess it becomes "less" fear and more defensive with time, so forth.. If the dog becomes predictive and knows the best way to deter is to come around with the teeth,then that action is still out of weakness rather then confidence surely if it doesn't learn confidence? So in essence another issue is caused.

I also have read it is done on dominant dogs too,as a harder correction, if it's refusing to listen in close prox of handler.

Yes I agree...flanking done incorrectly and by inexperienced people can definately create a nervy dog. I had a Securiy Guard bring a Dobi to me for some bitework. This dog had been trained using flanking. This dog was overly sensitive to anyone walking up behind him. Anytime a person would walk up behind this dog, he would instantly spin around and have a go (everytime). His bitework and confidence was very much lacking. Flanking definately created a nervy dog in this instance.

The trick is knowing how far to go with the flanking and when to stop using it to encourage a defensive response. I however am not keen on having to use it, as I believe that a dog should naturally want to defend without undue stress, and not be forced into it. This where active and reactive defence comes into play. I firmly believe dogs should be in active defense when working, this is a confident dog. Reactive defense is based on (usually) a fear response, and therefore not a very confident dog.

I myself wouldn't use this method anymore, and in my opinion very outdated method. Why force a dog and make him nervous just so that we can get a response that we desire, without really understanding the pyshcological effect it is having on the dog? Much better for the dog to work confidently in prey and slowly develop strong active defence for sure.

I agree with mark in that it is now out dated, I will admitt that when I first started training I often used this method, but I find it to be more harm than good. However, if I have a dog trained on prey and after slipping the sleeve or for any other reason it makes the mistake of letting the decoy out of site, or turns his back due to distraction, than flanking quickly teaches the dog to keep eyes on the decoy. It is very important however that your helper is experienced enough to recognize the difference between distraction and avoidance. If the dogs natural reaction is avoidance than flanking creates a reactive response rather than an active drive.

I have had this discussion many times and Im still not 100% on it.I can see the validity but I would have to know and trust the trainer knows what he is doing to let him flank my dog.Marks explanation was good as I beleived the interpretation of 'flanking' means different things to different people.Just grabbing the dog on the flank or as I have seen people striking the dog on the flank to give it a sting to get a reaction.Im sure a lot of people have read 'the Kohler method of Guard dog training' where it is outlined in.I own mastiff breeds and crosses and some have very little prey but do have defence but I am still wary about flanking and still think that a good dog should have some defence and want to defend itself at least but I guess some are to freindly and just need a kickstart.
I have heard of trainers doing methods of flanking that are down right cruel to get a dog to start and I think can in some instances make fearful and overly aggressive dogs but I guess it depends on the situation and what and where the dog is going to be used for.Something best left to the experts and people who can truly read a dog and know when to stop.

Slippery slope this flanking business...
It has a place.
It is certainly not something I would try and understand based on forum information, because there is so much to consider.
if the dog is sufficient it is very unlikely to need to be flanked, providing the trainer and handler have done their job properly.
do i/have i used it? sadly, yes...on occassions it has been necessary, often as a result of trying to fix problems created for whatever reason in the dogs, and usually because the dog has tons of negative experience and has been poorly trained previously.
once you go down the road of putting a dog in defence like that there is little choice about where to head if you send it into avoidance, and often an event like that will narrow your training options thus doing more harm than good.
would not recommend it for any novice decoys.
the better i have gotten as a decoy over the years, the less I have found the need to use it. Happily i cant remember the last time i had to.

have a great week guys!
Brad