Thread: "Table Training"

i have heard that much too nathan but i want to know what exactly is it.. i heard the police use to use this kind of method years ago too this is why i'm asking.. i heard it cruel too...?? i'm more curious.. dont worry certainly wont be adding that one to my training methods list

Yes I am not a big fan of this type of training. It's used to shutdown flight response. If the dog tries to run away (flight) while being worked in defence, he falls off the table and hangs himself. Eventually he learns to defend himself with fight response.

Many get excellent results from this method. I prefer not to use it.

this sounds awfully cruel!

is there other ways to train to get the same results...

you mention flight.. ok i think i'll start a new thread.. keeping you trainiers on your toes lol

I can honestly say that I have never heard of any Police Force in UK using Table Training, and I have no doubt at all that Australian and New Zealand Police Dog Sections don't use it; these dog squads were originally formed based on UK Police Dog training methods.

This is mainly a European thing as far as I am aware, but what I have seen of it I didn't like, and IMO can produce fear biters, which is certainly not what any Police Force wants.

Peter

thank you Peter it's nice to get some correct insight.. tired of ppl who make out they know something but dont.

i have found a few you tubes on this and had to shut them down i just think it's heartless and wrong and yes fear bitters is a no no for the police that i have seen.

[FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma]I believe that the correct use for the table is so that you don’t produce dogs that are sleeve fixated. The dog bites the sleeve then when he drops the sleeve it falls off the edge of the table. Removing the sleeve from his view, training the dog civilly to focus on the man not the sleeve. Then you use a new sleeve to work the dog. How some people are using the table incorrectly is another story! [/FONT]
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Originally Posted by drew mac

[FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma]I believe that the correct use for the table is so that you don’t produce dogs that are sleeve fixated. The dog bites the sleeve then when he drops the sleeve it falls off the edge of the table. Removing the sleeve from his view, training the dog civilly to focus on the man not the sleeve. Then you use a new sleeve to work the dog. How some people are using the table incorrectly is another story! [/FONT]
[/FONT]

Sorry to disagree, but table training is a quick fix way of training defence work. It has nothing to do with a dog being equipment focused or training to eliminate it, in fact quite the opposite. When a dog is worked on a table, tethered by a very short chain, it quickly realizes that all avenues of escape have been removed. Initially the decoy/helper stresses (agitates) the dog and demands attention and aggression. If the dog turns his back on him or does not act aggressively enough, the level of agitation is increased until the dog responds in the manner which the decoy requires. The dog quickly learns that if it doesn’t show aggression, it gets the **** knocked or scared out of it and the safest place to be is on the sleeve.
Bitework training based on a foundation of avoidance makes for an unreliable dog, which lacks confidence. When a dog has been started from a foundation in avoidance (table training) they can slide back into avoidance and choose to run from the threat rather than stand and fight.
The question is not whether you train a dog to bite, and bite hard with table training; you can, but can you get reliability from a dog with the wrong balance of drives, which are fear motivated. The object of the exercise with balanced drives is “confidence”. This cannot be achieved with training based on fear.

Cheers
Peter

Yes I would have to agree with you on this Peter.

The whole idea of table training is working a dog in defence, and taking away it's flight response, and usually the training is based on avoidance and fear.

In regards to using it on a dog not to be fixated on the sleeve. I don't agree with this. A good aggitator/decoy, should be able to refocus a dog once the sleeve has been released by the decoy.

Cheers