Thread: Nature vs Nurture

Hi Jolanda, I'm certainly no expert, however I did notice with my boy that he changed from about 18mths. What started to change was his dominance and dog aggression. This continued up until about 7 when he chilled out.

Could be something going on as he matures maybe?

Hi Jolanda,
It could be a number of things, firstly i went straight to hormones but then read again he is in fact desexed. Then there is the "fear period" some young dogs go through again after baby puppyhood.May i ask you, how you react/non react? to him when he displays these behaviours? and do you correct him etc just to get a broader picture...

Cheers
Amy

[=Amy Pattison;18193]Hi Jolanda,
It could be a number of things, firstly i went straight to hormones but then read again he is in fact desexed. Then there is the "fear period" some young dogs go through again after baby puppyhood.May i ask you, how you react/non react? to him when he displays these behaviours? and do you correct him etc just to get a broader picture...

Cheers
Amy[/]

Hi Amy,

I have tried to redirect his behaviour by asking for a sit and eye contact. I don't punish it because I don't want to help it escalate by making the whole thing a negative experience. I take him to the city and we walk there at least once a week and he is fine, until some-one wants direct contact with him, then he usually barks so again, I try and redirect that to some other behaviour so he doesn't get to practice it.

I was wondering about the 'fear period' thing because I know that it isn't as simple as people think. I think males are prone to more extended fear periods than females. In contrast, my girls are super sociable

To be perfectly honest, I know little about his lines and I have not met with any dogs from previous matings. If I mention his breeding, some may roll their eyes and have a wealth of knowledge to impart but given I have come this far, hindsight is of no further use here. I desexed him for good reasons, he was not breeding material and I wanted him purely as an obedience dog and companion. Ha, it makes 'stand for exam' a tricky issue for the obedience judge

I thought of putting him away for a while and letting him mature in his own time but I am not sure if that is the right thing to do either. And there in lies another quandry - sensitization vs desensitization. . . . all rather interesting.

I love discussing behaviour - it's a fascinating topic. Thanks for joining me!!

Cheerio

Jolanda

Hi Jolanda,

These stories like yours irritate and sadden me greatly that breeders are producing working line dogs like yours where people buy these dogs in good faith love and nurture them and end up with yet another weak nerved animal to contend with behavioural issues contrary to what a good GSD should exhibit. You should tell us who bred him and perhaps we should begin a register of breeders producing faulty temperaments and characters where perhaps some shaming may help them to lift their game somewhat and learn that it takes more knowledge than a male and female makes puppies.

All it would take to eliminate a large majority of poor breedings is a Schutzhund BH to weed out the spooky dogs and fear biters that too many are using for breeding stock. I would be contacting the breeder and asking what the hell are they doing!!!!.

Cheers
Nev

I am finding, that breeders that are just breeding, paper to paper are turning out more week nerved dogs than any one else.They should all be contributing factors where possible.
And regardless of what any body thinks, this is why culling is important, in my view.
I would not breed or buy, a week nerve dog or bitch, just because it has good papers, behind it.

[=Neville Patterson;18197]Hi Jolanda,

These stories like yours irritate and sadden me greatly that breeders are producing working line dogs like yours where people buy these dogs in good faith love and nurture them and end up with yet another weak nerved animal to contend with behavioural issues contrary to what a good GSD should exhibit. You should tell us who bred him and perhaps we should begin a register of breeders producing faulty temperaments and characters where perhaps some shaming may help them to lift their game somewhat and learn that it takes more knowledge than a male and female makes puppies.

All it would take to eliminate a large majority of poor breedings is a Schutzhund BH to weed out the spooky dogs and fear biters that too many are using for breeding stock. I would be contacting the breeder and asking what the hell are they doing!!!!.

Cheers
Nev[/]

Hi Nev,

You know its a really difficult thing. . . . . how does one make decisions about where is a good place to go to get a good dog?? So far one breeder sold me a dog that suffered from Haemophilia - dead at 14 months (and he kept breeding from that bitch!!). The second breeder didn't want me to visit their dogs and see for myself and the third breeder was pleasant enough but spent most of his time bagging out other breeders. What does a girl in Tassie do??? The first breeder I ever had anything to do with 'walked the walk and talked the talk' but only sold 'dogs with cracks' to the public and all the rest went to RAAF, Army and Police. Well, what can you say??? The other thing is that these people believe they ARE doing the right thing. . . . . Lets say it has been a mine-field for me.

Two things worry me here. One is that despite all the best efforts on my part, I have a dog that could quite likely be a liability (if not already) and proud as I am of him, those folk on the other side of the 'great divide' will feel justified in their criticism of the working line dogs. Yet the very best dog I ever owned came from old Australian working line kennels and people WANTED a dog like him. Having a crazy working line GSD is somehow much worse than having a crazy show line GSD LOL. I guess the show line/working line will always be heavily debated.

Amy,
I have tried to get strangers to give him treats and he happily accepts them (the treats) but remains suspicious of the individual. He seems more worried when people actually focus on him. He will lie beside me at a coffee shop happily until some-one addresses him or stops to look at him and then he barks at them. Well, he did initially and now I don't practice that anymore because the behaviour has escalated and that is worrying.

You asked about the what I did with the leash? The answer is nothing Ban does it himself when he leaps forward so I face the other direction and ask him to return to me. I try very hard never to yank him but I have now resorted to using a halti where he can't leap at all. Maybe that adds to his stress???? The truth is that in a space of a few weeks he went from barking at men to leaping at them some distance away to climbing my fence and bailing up the neighbour. On a more positive side, although he climbed my internal fence, he was still behind my boundary fence but that is where my neighbour had to alight from his truck and I am sure that my boy may well have climbed that too. . . . .

Interesting discussions. I am mindful that I elected to use my real name on this forum so having no alias to hide behind, I am reluctant to openly discuss breeders. After all, they could be here too Shame really because they could be very useful discussions.

Indebted

Jolanda

[=Robert Santori;18200]I am finding, that breeders that are just breeding, paper to paper are turning out more week nerved dogs than any one else.They should all be contributing factors where possible.
And regardless of what any body thinks, this is why culling is important, in my view.
I would not breed or buy, a week nerve dog or bitch, just because it has good papers, behind it.[/]

Hi Robert,

Having said that; how do you go about testing for correct temperament when puppies leave home at 8 weeks generally. Do you temperament test?? This is something that I am very interested in. I think often that puppies temp tested prior to leaving for their homes, don't necessarily conform to the findings later in life.

Any breeders on here temperament test their puppies?? Am interested to hear

Cheers

Jolanda