growling on the bite to add onto a question from another thread

[Sonny Lee]

OK.... a newbie question. I have read numerous times on this forum that growling when engaging the decoy seems to imply weakness in the part of the dog. Is that always true? In Schtzhund, our club also tries to stop the dog growling when doing bitework. However, there is this GSD in our club that growls whenever he is biting... but I don't think he is not confident.. in fact, he seems very confident (at least to my untrained eye). There is nothing you can throw at this dog that will make him run away. The handler is aware that he is losing points in trials, but he likes the growl! Perhaps the dog is just vocal? Is that possible? Then, why use growling as a measure for unsureness of the dog to engage... shouldn't we look at the dog's entire body language?

[Mark S]

Growling tends to indicate some form of stress on the dog... However stress is not always a bad thing. You tend to find dogs that work more in defence tend to growl more, as defence is brought out due to stress.

When a dog is stressed in prey, held back from the chase - he/she barks. This can be used as positive stress to build up intensity and desire.

Dogs that growl when working in defence, is not always a negative stress.

Dogs worked in SchH, are mainly working in prey..hence no growling.. This shepherd you mention, is most probably working in defence.. SchH people do not want dogs working in defence..hence growling not good

[Nathan Cram]

BUMP..

good question

[Shane Johnson]

Thanks for the explanation Mark.I have often thought/wondered the same thing.I have seen trainers say exactly that.What I posted in another thread about trainers and certain breeds was more or less the same thing and not directed at you or anyone else here but an observation.I used to have a dog that I did some training with and she did exactly that on the bite and I was told the same thing.I was a bit green at the time but I didnt agree with it then and dont now.The particular dog was a very confident/socialy dominant individual and had very little fear of anythin living or otherwise.The dog didnt lack nerves or was weak in anyway.When she bit it was with a full mouth and decoy would give her some fight and she would fight bak obviously bringing the defence to the for and hence she would growl but her grip would never change.I just think sometimes people try to lump everything in the one basket.

[Mark S]

I agree Shane... going against the grain here.. I do not believe that just because a dog growls, its the sign of weakness or weak nerves.

Sometimes vocalisation even hences the strength or desire.. look at some tennis players that give a growl when working at their peak, and pushing past it.

Sure in a lot of cases, growling can be a sign of weak nerves, I do not dispute that at all.. But as you say, I have too seen dogs with very strong fight and nerves growling, when engaging. I feel sometimes it helps them build up their intensity when fighting in defence.. And there is nothing wrong with a dog that is strong in defence.

I have even seen a dog in prey catch its prey and growl while shaking it.. I don't consider this a weak nerved dog either. Some dogs are just more vocal..Not unlike humans

[Amy P]

Sure in a lot of cases, growling can be a sign of weak nerves, I do not dispute that at all.. But as you say, I have too seen dogs with very strong fight and nerves growling, when engaging. I feel sometimes it helps them build up their intensity when fighting in defence.. And there is nothing wrong with a dog that is strong in defence.

I have even seen a dog in prey catch its prey and growl while shaking it.. I don't consider this a weak nerved dog either. Some dogs are just more vocal..Not unlike humans

I agree 100% with this. I was going to write basically this so quoted you instead. I believe the important difference in growling dogs (mature age) is the "eye" that catches it and knows where it is coming from within the actual dog. So basically trainer/handler exp comes down to it if it is acceptable or not...(growling)

Growling within grips, i would like to see how much the dog was holding, as if it has a deep full bite vocalising would be quite muffled in my breed, never seen it in my male but my bitch growls a fair bit. She does not have the same level of bite.