Positive fear in dogs

**Shane Johnson** · 06-18-2010, 05:33 PM

Anyhow the above posts by me hopefully fuel some food for thought, and others may like to express their thoughts on what creates a manic over the top dog, in either prey or fight. Is it just genetic, or is it also ehanced through training, and as sugested above is it chemically based?

Back to the idea that all bravery has elements of fear, as a trigger.

Does fear, trigger a fight response? Or does it only trigger a defensive or avoidence response? Or both?

I personally feel both... as with the human facing fear, which triggers survival instinct. And depending on the genetics of the human, fear can trigger defensive, avoidence or fight response. Fight doesn't necessarily mean aggression..its the fight to survive.

I believe animals are no different..and with proper training, and managing the level of threat we can use fear as a positive in training a dog.
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I think good dogs are born and genetics plays a major role but good training enhances that.Is it chemically based?I dont know and I dont know about all bravery having fear as a trigger but chemically that may be the case.Isnt that why adrenaline is produced by the body?Just as people have different thresholds so do dogs. Everyone feels fear just as all dogs will in some situation but it will depend on the individual to an extent.Its how you deal with it overcome it and that in built survival mechanism is stronger in some.
Havent dogs over time been manipulated by man for his needs to be a certain way to fulfil his needs.Culling dogs that are weak nerved and fearful and cant operate under certain conditions so that the dogs used for service are stronger nerved.Maybe I am talking about soemthing dofferent but I find it interesting.
About it triggering a fight response or defense or avoidance I would think its the situation and how threatened the dog feels as to his response.I would think it would be both depending on the situation and the individual.

**Brad Griggs** · 06-18-2010, 06:24 PM

How chemicals affect the brain is based in genetics...the pointing behaviour of field dogs is actually based in anxiety, and the perception of the dog is the dictator of the chemical reaction that takes place.
It is almost a chicken/egg response...ALMOST.
Does a dog enjoy the adrenaline? for sure! undeniable! Otherwise how would such a highly appetitive association be formed with the work?
The rate at which a skill declines without recent repetition is directly proportionate to how closely that skill correlates to the individual dogs instincts.
Instincts are genetic, we can only work with what we have been given (as much as I hate admitting this limitation as a passionate dog trainer!)
The dogs untrained genetic responses to a given stimulus show us the genetic predisposition of the dog, his temperament and traits....we all love to assess a superstar young dog that is raw for this very insight.
Consider depression or addiction in humans...these things have a huge genetic component, although environment can influence manifestation of the conditions, it is the genetic predisposition that is influenced.
Consider that genetics are the potential that the dog can live into.
Its a great chat topic re adrenalin....but I cant agree with a lot of what I have read....that is what makes it so interesting for me!
Courage is really the actions that the dog takes, despite the presence (or not) of fear.
How much fear the dog feels is primarily influence by his confidence and nerve on a genetic level, and secondly by the experiences he has lived through (environmental influences), hedonically good and bad.

Amy P · 06-20-2011, 10:33 AM

Back to the idea that all bravery has elements of fear, as a trigger.

Does fear, trigger a fight response? Or does it only trigger a defensive or avoidence response? Or both? I believe it can be both in most dogs, the dog defense is based from perceived threat by dog......Avoidance, dog is avoiding but may defend if no option to flee is present.

I personally feel both... as with the human facing fear, which triggers survival instinct. And depending on the genetics of the human, fear can trigger defensive, avoidence or fight response. Fight doesn't necessarily mean aggression..its the fight to survive. I agree.....to "survive" that is genes and environment that determines why it thinks it must survive in the first place...

I believe animals are no different..and with proper training, and managing the level of threat we can use fear as a positive in training a dog. Not sure i understand the fear component specifically being used as a positive alone?

Could fear trigger fight? I think yes..

**Ann-Marie Abbott** · 06-22-2011, 12:37 PM

Sharpness and civil drive is said to have a component of fear attached to it necessary for a dog to take a serious stance to defend. Too hard and too confident with a high threshold to reactivity is said to be a negative to reach a trigger point where the dog responds. The right amount of fear for a dog to react instinctively towards a real threat at the right moment I think is a positive yes?

Amy P · 06-24-2011, 03:32 PM

A positive "on it's own" my previous post said.... not coupled with anything else towards a threat......is just fear.....to me that is not positive.If a dog is genetically mistrustful combined with defense, civil, and trainability then those components are acceptable as positives but that is a combination....

AneM · 07-06-2011, 09:49 PM

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