Thread: Natural Suspision in Working Dogs

I suppose we can culminate 'natural suspicion' into the thinking category. The dog is analysing the suspect, you can see the dogs mind working. He is not just going straight into uncontrolled or random maul mode. A thinking dog is not distracted, he can concentrate on what you teach him without simply flicking into a deeper instinct. You can trust your training.

To everyone, if someone called you and said 'my dog is aggressive, he launches at people, he turns and bites me if I try and correct him, occasionally if I try to make him do something he doesnt want to, he resource guards and he's an all round unreadable turd' who would realistically jump at this dog and want to title it in Sch. To the trainers, if someone called you 'oh I have a mastiff x ridgeback and he's really mean, he growls at people etc etc" would you immediately offer bite training?
On the other hand if someone rang and said 'my dog loves prey games, is focussed on me when we try to learn something, will stand his ground if a [no to low threat body language] stranger comes to the door but I can talk to them without him trying to kill them' you would probably think, hmmm ok sounds like something I want to take a look at... When I speak of aggression I mean what I term the C gene some dogs have (have a good think ... 4 letter word) the dogs that are not predictable or controllable in their expression, work through instinct foremost and are quick to use their aggression in any situation. I thought the first test a dog needed to pass for Schutzhund is the Begleithund to prove a stable temperament, not a test to see if the dog uses its teeth before its brains. If we're going to lump all working drives and terms under an 'aggression' umbrella we're soon going to get confused or a bad purchase. To me there are inherently aggressive individuals and those that show aggressive behavior in response to a stimulus, usually due to fear or last resort. Many times I have clients call me with an 'aggressive dog'. Well a session or two redirecting and reducing anxiety we see the dog is happy to then be around the same stimulus that illicited the initial scary outburst. Then there are the dogs that are not happy to redirect their anxiety to productive means. The ones you apply control techniques and the animal is still trying to find ways around them in order to achieve what it will see as a favourable outcome to the situation (yet you and the frightened owner do not). These dogs are not fixed, they are managed. Schutzhund is about control of the dog, one of the few mutidisciplinary sports that highlights such a fantastic relationship and trust between dog and owner outside of a true working context. Why would you want truely aggressive dogs in there. Maybe we just need to nitpick over terms a little more.

Originally Posted by Chris Jones

Wrong. Natural suspicion is fear based, and if your gonna have a dog like that pray it has courage.
The best police and military dogs are fight driven with unshakable nerves. They see the perp as a challange, not a threat.
The sooner this country gets past "prey(play)/defence" the better.

Hi all
Thank you Chris I totally agree with you...
Couldnt of put it better myself


Regards
george

Do we mean natural suspicion as in a dog that slinks about or circles, shows wary behavior around strangers or a dog that is simply standoffish and wont immediately throw themselves into a strangers lap?

Originally Posted by Chris Jones

Wrong. Natural suspicion is fear based, and if your gonna have a dog like that pray it has courage.
The best police and military dogs are fight driven with unshakable nerves. They see the perp as a challange, not a threat.
The sooner this country gets past "prey(play)/defence" the better.

Hi Chris,

Thanks for echoing my words. As you know, I have been beating my head up against a brick trying to change people's perspective about prey, (play), defence.

When I imported my Dares z Geradonu, some so-called experts in this country did not understand and know how to work this type of dog non-classical. Even with International guests such as Sgt Donn Yarnall, Stewart Hilliard, Lance Collins, Bernhard Flinks etc...... explaining and working this type of quality, non classical, some people did not get it then, and some still do not get it now.

I, too, like my dogs to see you as a challenge rather than a threat. A dog without solid nerve is a poor contender.........

Evan

The point of my statement seems to have been missed; maybe it should be read again. I'm not really surprised.

Suspicion = Weakness.......rubbish!

If we want mindless lunatics that will immediately want to rush in and jump off the cliff…….then good luck, you’ll also need it.

Natural suspicion DOES NOT equate to weakness; “a dog that slinks about or circles, shows wary behaviour around strangers�……YES, but we are not talking about that are we.

And if we’re going to compare the “dictionary definition� to a canine’s natural suspicion, then maybe we should rethink how we ourselves “think� about our dogs.

“I, too, like my dogs to see you as a challenge rather than a threat�………..Evan, is that not natural suspicion? The fact that the dog “sees you as a challenge�.