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Thread: Schutzhund conditioning

                  
   
  1. #51
    John Evans
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    Re: Schutzhund conditioning

    Quote Originally Posted by Vendo Vincent View Post
    I think you are all really talking about the same qualities you would like to have in a dog.

    I actually would have to agree with a few points Julie has made.

    George I don't quite get what you meant by "a thinking dog is not a strong nerved dog." To me I rely on my dog to analyse a situation and react. Dogs read body posture and language far quicker than we do. In my experience I think a dog that reacts too quickly has low nerve.

    If however George you mean you need your dog to switch on to some one that is passive then I agree - no hesitation.

    As for at home, - Yes I want them to be defensive, but if I tell them to back off then they need to back off. I personally want my dogs to be social, and I think it is a very important balancing factor to have in a working dog.

    Hi Vendo

    I’m not quite sure what the term “thinking dog” means. A good working dog (Police, Military or Security) must possess a degree of “natural suspicion” which may mean “thinking”, and it’s just another term.

    A good test for young green dogs is to have a decoy hide away covered from head to toe in a sheet; could be white or any colour. When the handler approaches with the young dog, the decoy steps out in the sheet; he doesn’t threaten he just appears. Now the dog -can A) either back-off and retreat behind the handler, B) stand his ground out front and watch and maybe he’ll bark or growl, C) or finally the dog may rush forward at the decoy to engage. Which dog would you choose? And I know that the first would be discounted by all. I would choose the second B. It is showing natural suspicion without fear; you could say the dog is thinking. IMO the dog which just wants to rush in and bite is going to present problems later on.

  2. #52
    Super Moderator Julie Kopunovich's Avatar
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    Re: Schutzhund conditioning

    I suppose we can culminate 'natural suspicion' into the thinking category. The dog is analysing the suspect, you can see the dogs mind working. He is not just going straight into uncontrolled or random maul mode. A thinking dog is not distracted, he can concentrate on what you teach him without simply flicking into a deeper instinct. You can trust your training.

    To everyone, if someone called you and said 'my dog is aggressive, he launches at people, he turns and bites me if I try and correct him, occasionally if I try to make him do something he doesnt want to, he resource guards and he's an all round unreadable turd' who would realistically jump at this dog and want to title it in Sch. To the trainers, if someone called you 'oh I have a mastiff x ridgeback and he's really mean, he growls at people etc etc" would you immediately offer bite training?
    On the other hand if someone rang and said 'my dog loves prey games, is focussed on me when we try to learn something, will stand his ground if a [no to low threat body language] stranger comes to the door but I can talk to them without him trying to kill them' you would probably think, hmmm ok sounds like something I want to take a look at... When I speak of aggression I mean what I term the C gene some dogs have (have a good think ... 4 letter word) the dogs that are not predictable or controllable in their expression, work through instinct foremost and are quick to use their aggression in any situation. I thought the first test a dog needed to pass for Schutzhund is the Begleithund to prove a stable temperament, not a test to see if the dog uses its teeth before its brains. If we're going to lump all working drives and terms under an 'aggression' umbrella we're soon going to get confused or a bad purchase. To me there are inherently aggressive individuals and those that show aggressive behavior in response to a stimulus, usually due to fear or last resort. Many times I have clients call me with an 'aggressive dog'. Well a session or two redirecting and reducing anxiety we see the dog is happy to then be around the same stimulus that illicited the initial scary outburst. Then there are the dogs that are not happy to redirect their anxiety to productive means. The ones you apply control techniques and the animal is still trying to find ways around them in order to achieve what it will see as a favourable outcome to the situation (yet you and the frightened owner do not). These dogs are not fixed, they are managed. Schutzhund is about control of the dog, one of the few mutidisciplinary sports that highlights such a fantastic relationship and trust between dog and owner outside of a true working context. Why would you want truely aggressive dogs in there. Maybe we just need to nitpick over terms a little more.

  3. #53
    Administrator Vendo Vincent's Avatar
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    Re: Schutzhund conditioning

    Remaining posts put here. More than enogh for a new subject

    http://www.specialistcanines.com/dog....html#post8361
    Vendo.
    ------ TALK IS CHEAP.... SHOW US YOUR DOG.

  4. #54
    Administrator Vendo Vincent's Avatar
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    Re: Schutzhund conditioning

    Quote Originally Posted by Julie Kopunovich View Post
    I suppose we can culminate 'natural suspicion' into the thinking category. The dog is analysing the suspect, you can see the dogs mind working. He is not just going straight into uncontrolled or random maul mode. A thinking dog is not distracted, he can concentrate on what you teach him without simply flicking into a deeper instinct. You can trust your training.

    To everyone, if someone called you and said 'my dog is aggressive, he launches at people, he turns and bites me if I try and correct him, occasionally if I try to make him do something he doesnt want to, he resource guards and he's an all round unreadable turd' who would realistically jump at this dog and want to title it in Sch. To the trainers, if someone called you 'oh I have a mastiff x ridgeback and he's really mean, he growls at people etc etc" would you immediately offer bite training?
    On the other hand if someone rang and said 'my dog loves prey games, is focussed on me when we try to learn something, will stand his ground if a [no to low threat body language] stranger comes to the door but I can talk to them without him trying to kill them' you would probably think, hmmm ok sounds like something I want to take a look at... When I speak of aggression I mean what I term the C gene some dogs have (have a good think ... 4 letter word) the dogs that are not predictable or controllable in their expression, work through instinct foremost and are quick to use their aggression in any situation. I thought the first test a dog needed to pass for Schutzhund is the Begleithund to prove a stable temperament, not a test to see if the dog uses its teeth before its brains. If we're going to lump all working drives and terms under an 'aggression' umbrella we're soon going to get confused or a bad purchase. To me there are inherently aggressive individuals and those that show aggressive behavior in response to a stimulus, usually due to fear or last resort. Many times I have clients call me with an 'aggressive dog'. Well a session or two redirecting and reducing anxiety we see the dog is happy to then be around the same stimulus that illicited the initial scary outburst. Then there are the dogs that are not happy to redirect their anxiety to productive means. The ones you apply control techniques and the animal is still trying to find ways around them in order to achieve what it will see as a favourable outcome to the situation (yet you and the frightened owner do not). These dogs are not fixed, they are managed. Schutzhund is about control of the dog, one of the few mutidisciplinary sports that highlights such a fantastic relationship and trust between dog and owner outside of a true working context. Why would you want truely aggressive dogs in there. Maybe we just need to nitpick over terms a little more.
    Copied you post back here Julie as you actuly kept on track in regards to Sch.
    Vendo.
    ------ TALK IS CHEAP.... SHOW US YOUR DOG.

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